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My Caste

cs.toronto.edu

341–350 of 451 posts

Re: My Caste

#341
post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, yours is a very shallow argument. Unless you can reveal anything about the inner workings of the tenure board, you are taking your impression of a broad organisation and applying it to a specific department, a management structure and a board for which you are ignorant. Please don't make sweeping generalisations and minimise the position of the author unless you have actual knowledge that might let you…

If we are being pedantic, the burden of proof does not lie on me. I didn't publish AND promote a blog post where I feared not getting my current job because of some social dynamic that happens to exist 12,500km from where I am right now. You should ask OP to provide evidence of caste discrimination in Canada , at this particular University .

You:

> I can assure you that caste had absolutely nothing to do with OPs election/non-election

Also you:

> the burden of proof does not lie on me

You made very strong claims in your opening post. Asking you to provide some proof to support those claims is perfectly valid.

Re: My Caste

#342
post #45

The caste system in India is layered like onions. The author says he was born as OBC (Other Backward Classes), but that's not the lowest in the overall scheme. SC (Scheduled Castes) are considered lower in the hierarchy. ST (Scheduled Tribes) are considered even lower (there are variations across states and regions, so please take this with a pinch of salt). While the atrocities and punishments by "upper" caste peopl…

> the oppressed themselves don't understand it well enough to avoid oppressing others

I can’t comment too much because i’ve had a copy sitting unread in my pile of books to read for over 6 months now, but if anyone is interested, I think this is the exact topic of Paulo Freire’s ‘ Pedagogy of the Oppressed’ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedagogy_of_the_Oppressed

Re: My Caste

#343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Discrimination goes against article one of my country's Constitution. I don't need to know anything about caste just as I don't need to know that in some countries you can marry an 11 year old.

The point is no one is discriminating against Jaats, the group the professor belongs to. They are one of the richest & powerful groups in India. The blog is very misleading since caste based discrimination against Jatts is unheard of.

In fact the group the professor belongs to is responsible for 80% of caste based discriminations that happen in India.

Re: My Caste

#344

I have never heard or felt anyone talk about caste in my 25 years in US. I work with both academia as well as industry.

They may not have talked about it to you, but that doesn't mean they didn't talk about it at all.

Re: My Caste

#345
Logic would dictate that OBCs would be a superset of SCs. And in his RTI requests you indeed see several SC professors in these departments. So why did he exclude SCs? I guess it doesn't make for as big a click-baity headline then?

Re: My Caste

#346

[dead]

I know very little about the caste system, but it does strike me as odd that only 1 in 180 professors is from a group representing 50% of the population. It becomes even more suspicious if there's a quota for admissions as you say. At some point between admission and tenure, there seems to be a great filter. How do you explain that, if not for discrimination?

Not so much deliberate as just being a matter of supply, from what I understand.

> “teachers and mentors specialising in science are rare in the rural high schools attended by these students, especially Adivasis,” Sonajharia Minz, a computer scientist and vice-chancellor of Sido Kanhu Murmu University in Dumka, was quoted as saying.

Re: My Caste

#347
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "sort of problems" do you mean, exactly?

Schhol shootings in the US, Neo-Nazis in East Germany, islamist terrorists. They all have in common of being, over simplifying, frustrated, in secure young men. They are easily manipulated by populists and ideologists, prone to use violence and prone to be sexist, racist etc. I guess that is becaise the way they see themselves, or what they think society expects them to be, is something they do not get. Hence the inc…

[dead]

Re: My Caste

#348

I have never heard or felt anyone talk about caste in my 25 years in US. I work with both academia as well as industry.

In the US, caste is mostly a made up issue. Most 95% Indian Americans are upper caste or rich land owning OBCs (like the professor who wrote this blog). Who exactly are they discriminating against then?

Lot of grifters like Equality Labs have made this issue in US bigger than it seems. Most Indian American kids probably don't even know their own caste.

Re: My Caste

#349
post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please don't cross into personal attack. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If I've not crossed into personal attack, why my comments are not visible? If Mr Meel chooses to contest any of the facts stated here, he can do it publicly, here at Ycombinator.

Re: My Caste

#350
post #30
post #7

> I was, however, not ready to publicly declare it until I received tenure as it seemed too risky Risk of what ? Seems a bit exaggerating. > There are at most five tenure-track faculty who belong to OBC category among all the faculty members in North America's "top" 50 CS departments > What evidence do I have to support my claim? And then continues to show castes of faculty at IIT. Am I missing something here ?

>Risk of what ? Seems a bit exaggerating. There is a whole paragraph answering this question: ``` An uninitiated might be forgiven for not realizing that caste-based discrimination is rampant in India (yes, even among faculty members at IITs), and perhaps worse among Non-Resident Indians (NRIs). Therefore, there was always fear of what would a potential letter writer or someone on tenure evaluation committee think of…

--- So, to lay it out for you:

1) Hypothesis: There is discrimination against OBC in academia

2) Evidence: The near absence of OBC professors in IITs

3) Prediction: This probably affects OBCs outside India as well

---

I hope the author is not a STEM prof, because with that poor grasp of scientific method and statistics he wont be able to do justice to any subject that involves science. But of course I recognize that this is paraphrasing of the author and not author's precise argument.

When you take tiny slices of society where the people need to be in top 0.05% of their field, chances are there wont be uniform distribution of other social aspects in it such as race, caste, language, gender etc. I am not a statistician but this phenomenon is called non-ergodicity. I like to call it `Jew` effect.

> According to a May 1945 roster, Jews made up about two-thirds of the leadership in the Manhattan Project’s Theoretical Division (T-Division) — the group tasked with calculating critical mass and modeling implosions — which is still operating today as the only division with an uninterrupted history since Project Y.

Does this imply that the government was somehow discriminatory because there were not enough black people on the project leadership ? Perhaps project Manhattan needed a DEI department too ?

> 3) Prediction: This probably affects OBCs outside India as well

This is even more nonsensical. Outside India is mostly white and probably cant even spell Caste properly is obsessed with author's dubious OBC identity ? How ? In my experience white people see all of us as brown people. They do no discriminate in their discrimination if at all they do it.

It is even easier to bust this sort of propaganda by finding counter examples. Look at areas where discrimination might cause major harm to the one discriminating.

Good example is politics:

Kamala Harris - who has some Indian blood is actually coming from "high caste" Tamil Brahmin. Vivek Ramaswamy - again belongs to high caste Tamil Brahmin Rep. Ro Khanna - Khatri caste (typically high caste) Rep. Pramila Jaypal (maiden name Menon) belongs to higher caste Nair from Kerala. Rep. Raja Krishnamooorthi - Tamil Brahmin. Nikki Haley (real name Namrata Randhawa) - Jat (Royal/Warrior caste).

Let us look at Trump's appointments of federal judge appointments:

- Amul Thapar - Higher caste/Royal caste. - Jagan Ranjan - Maithili Brahmin - high caste - Raag Singhal - Warrior caste higher caste. - Diane Gujrati - Trader caste - Medium caste (not OBC)

Lets look at other prominent judges in USA

- Moxilla Upadhyay the judge who warned trump - Higher caste Brahmin. - Arun Subramanian - high caste. - Sri Srinivasan - appointed by Obama. is an high caste Iyenger.

Unless both Trump and Obama administrations and their advisors such as Cato, Heritage, Soros etc. are all casteist engaging in a conspiracy to keep OBCs out of courts, it might be the case that Brahmins and Kshatriyas often tend to dominate the top academic fields.

PS Note: I have closely looked at IIT Bombay faculty recruitment for CSE department. The process is extremely rigorous and has far too many people involved. The person need to have impeccable academic record to begin with. We are pretty much talking about people who have consistently been top 0.05% of every damn exam in their life.

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