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My Caste

cs.toronto.edu

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Re: My Caste

#291

Post by quadrifoliate »

primitivesuave wrote: post #265

I was born in India and moved to the United States when I was very young. One of the other Indian-American kids asked me what my caste is after hearing my unfamiliar last name. At the time, I hadn't even heard of caste, and didn't realized what kind of parenting environment creates a 7 year old (who doesn't even live in India or speak the language) to question the caste of another Indian in the first place. After sch…

For what it's worth, I think your mother's attitude is shared by the vast majority of Indian-Americans, and even first-generation Indian immigrants like me.

In India, there are egregious things reminding you about it, i.e. literally every government form ever -- but in the US it's reasonably easy to ignore and forget about completely unless you go out initiating conversations about it, or are unlucky enough to run into someone like your friend.

I have had a ton of both Indian-American and Indian immigrant friends in the US, and have had zero conversations with any of them that involved discussing caste.

Re: My Caste

#292

Post by moralestapia »

Philpax wrote: post #245
moralestapia wrote: post #199

Phew, what a post. I am at University of Toronto right now. I have only been here for some months but I have seen enough things to get a sense of the "politics" of the place. Also, I've been in many of the world's top universities (Caltech, Cornell, KAUST, Oxford, Stanford, UNAM, and some others with less pompous names); either studying, visiting, working, w/e. I've been doing this for close to 20 years now. I know a…

> So, to readers here, I can assure you that caste had absolutely nothing to do with OPs election/non-election as a faculty member That's a strong claim to make for someone who was not at all involved in the process.

Quite a shallow argument.

For starters, the guy did get his tenure, which implies that caste did not have a negative impact in the decision.

Re: My Caste

#293

Post by moralestapia »

michaelhoffman wrote: post #289
moralestapia wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone carries some cultural/personal baggage, if that affects the outcome of some otherwise fair procedure it's a sad story but it's not the procedure's fault. >the university solicits six appraisals from relevant experts at other institutions If you think this could be improved, well, show us how.

It seems like you may be reading some things into my comment that I didn't write? I made no claims about the procedure being fair or unfair—I'm just describing what it is.

>Everyone carries some cultural/personal baggage, if that affects the outcome of some otherwise fair procedure it's a sad story but it's not the procedure's fault.

This is a neutral statement, though.

Re: My Caste

#294

Post by nojvek »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #291
primitivesuave wrote: post #265

I was born in India and moved to the United States when I was very young. One of the other Indian-American kids asked me what my caste is after hearing my unfamiliar last name. At the time, I hadn't even heard of caste, and didn't realized what kind of parenting environment creates a 7 year old (who doesn't even live in India or speak the language) to question the caste of another Indian in the first place. After sch…

For what it's worth, I think your mother's attitude is shared by the vast majority of Indian-Americans, and even first-generation Indian immigrants like me. In India, there are egregious things reminding you about it, i.e. literally every government form ever -- but in the US it's reasonably easy to ignore and forget about completely unless you go out initiating conversations about it, or are unlucky enough to run in…

As an American Indian I found the whole asking of race in government forms to be a bit crazy.

I usually end up putting “N/A” or equivalent.

Re: My Caste

#295

Post by flangola7 »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #291
primitivesuave wrote: post #265

I was born in India and moved to the United States when I was very young. One of the other Indian-American kids asked me what my caste is after hearing my unfamiliar last name. At the time, I hadn't even heard of caste, and didn't realized what kind of parenting environment creates a 7 year old (who doesn't even live in India or speak the language) to question the caste of another Indian in the first place. After sch…

For what it's worth, I think your mother's attitude is shared by the vast majority of Indian-Americans, and even first-generation Indian immigrants like me. In India, there are egregious things reminding you about it, i.e. literally every government form ever -- but in the US it's reasonably easy to ignore and forget about completely unless you go out initiating conversations about it, or are unlucky enough to run in…

It's on government forms?

Re: My Caste

#296

Post by primax »

moralestapia wrote: post #292
Philpax wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, to readers here, I can assure you that caste had absolutely nothing to do with OPs election/non-election as a faculty member That's a strong claim to make for someone who was not at all involved in the process.

Quite a shallow argument. For starters, the guy did get his tenure, which implies that caste did not have a negative impact in the decision.

You're right, yours is a very shallow argument.

Unless you can reveal anything about the inner workings of the tenure board, you are taking your impression of a broad organisation and applying it to a specific department, a management structure and a board for which you are ignorant.

Please don't make sweeping generalisations and minimise the position of the author unless you have actual knowledge that might let you walk in his shoes.

Re: My Caste

#297

Post by lucb1e »

sharkjacobs wrote: post #32
curtisblaine wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if you are from a lower caste but wear the white thread to misdirect? Or you lie about being / not being vegetarian by choice / at birth?

What happens if you lie on your resume? what if you practice speaking with a more prestigious accent than you grew up with? What if you carefully study your friends who went to private schools and summered in the Hamptons to learn how to imitate their ineffable shibboleth mannerisms? The answer is yes, you can do these things, and it will confer exactly the benefits you imagine. And the consequences for getting "caug…

> What happens if you lie on your resume?

Lying about credentials or experience is a bit different from wearing a piece of clothing you arguably find pretty or obviously inconsequential things like saying you eat meat or not

Re: My Caste

#298

Post by cududa »

tekla wrote: post #277
kelnos wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a team of 10 I absolutely agree that you're probably not going to get that fine-grained, and you'll probably look at larger groups of 100 or more. But it still can be useful to spot-check smaller teams. If that team of 10 is, say, 100% male, or 100% Chinese, maybe that's something that deserves a second look. Not with guns-blazing, "you all are obviously sexist/racist", but... a second look, nonetheless.

What if it was 100% women, or 100% Black?

What if they were 100% Gelgameks? It's a nonsense question because at any large tech co, there aren't any engineering teams that are 100% women or Black. I don't believe that's a reflection the skills of race or gender lacking, just that there aren't any tech co execs that would feel comfortable with that due to their own bias and overall corporate culture..

Re: My Caste

#299

Post by klyrs »

moralestapia wrote: post #206
kristianp wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have several Indian friends I've made during my stay here, and not a single time has the issue of caste has come up to be discussed. I'm guessing it's not discussed at great length and not discussed with non-Indian people at all unless you brimg it up.

If you're trying to hint at some "it happens all the time, it's just hidden from public view", it doesn't. Non-Indians literally don't care, and very (very) few Indians actually do (at least in Canada).

As a non-Indian in Canada, I think it's pretty hard not to notice when one department is full of people named Jain, just like the department head. While I wouldn't expect to notice in less obvious cases, I care, and it sure seems like that department head cares.

Re: My Caste

#300

Post by lucb1e »

howinteresting wrote: post #251
momirlan wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry, not American here. "backwards" means the same thing in any other type of English. I will "prepone" it... lol

What exactly is your point then? It's just another word for "disadvantaged", "underprivileged" or "oppressed".

And it just happens to have a more commonly known negative meaning? They could have picked disadvantaged or oppressed, instead, for that acronym. I had little-to-no idea about this system until today and I'm not even a native english speaker, but all the same it seems curious to me that this word choice is just a coincidence...
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