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The end of cool small cars

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Re: The end of cool small cars

#111

Post by ianburrell »

etempleton wrote: post #54
grunder_advice wrote: post #22

I don't believe that it is the end. Because small cars make more sense than big ass SUVs from a whole lot of angles: safety on the roads, energy efficiency, parking, traffic in cities, cost for the consumer. It is a policy failure that we ended up in this situation, a hard one to fix, but I still think that it is inevitable that we will revert to smaller vehicles, eventually.

I generally agree with you, but small cars are a lot less safe on a highway with tractor trailers and big SUVs around.

Big SUVs and pickup trucks are less or equally safe to mid-size SUVs and cars. The pickup frame is durable but doesn't provide good occupant protection. Also, big vehicles are more likely to crash being less maneuverable. Plus, a good portion of crashes are single-car and doesn't matter how big truck is if crash into pillar.

Re: The end of cool small cars

#112

Post by Arrath »

leokennis wrote: post #72
rocgf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're an idiot helping to accelerate the problem as this now becomes a weapons race on the road This is a very harsh take for something that is legal and widespread everywhere across the world (at least Western world). You have to try really hard to pretend you don't understand why this is happening. It's a race to the top of the safety spectrum, and for good reason. Traffic accidents are among the single biggest…

It's a race to the top of the safety spectrum in which my 8 year old son on his bicycle can only participate as a guaranteed loser.

In fact its all a long con to bring the Penny Farthing back into style so drivers of modern land barges can see your child on his bicycle over their own 1.5m high hood/grille.

Re: The end of cool small cars

#113

Post by wcarron »

While the author rightfully decries the bloating of the Rav4, it's pretty close to a perfect size for a couple who consistently travels outdoors. Our '14 Subie crosstrek just shit its transmission out and we migrated to a used pre-facelift Rav out of necessity, being in a small city with little pub transport and poor infrastructure.

I just really, really wish a carmaker would make something that size, and put it on a real 4x4 platform. AWD is okay, but if you're really gettin' out there, sometimes you just need that extra capability. As of right now, there's basically no true 4x4 out there that has decent cargo space and isn't absolutely gigantic. New Jeeps are as big as old Hummers (which used to be considered massive), the Bronco has piss-poor cargo space for just how bloated the thing is. The 4Runner is getting bigger almost every year.

There simply are no worthwhile new, small, capable vehicles for sale. A Rav4 or Outback sized body-on-frame 4x4, with an 8 speed auto or 6-spd manual, good suspension, cupholders that fit a Hydroflask, and some sturdy roof rails and a hitch to hold a bike rack is the ideal outdoor vehicle, imo. Toss in the new niceties like wireless phone charger, CarPlay/Android Auto, and blind spot detection, adaptive CC, etc. to make paved driving a bit nicer, and you're golden.

Re: The end of cool small cars

#114

Post by Cagrosso »

hbn wrote: post #95

I've always driven a small car and it's what I prefer to drive. They're easy to handle, I like being able to not worry as much about navigating tight curbs, and fit into smaller or "small car only" parking spaces, etc. But man, sometimes I pull up beside one of these absurdly huge modern trucks and I'm basically just staring at their wheels. It's terrifying to think if I collided head-on with one of these, they'd pro…

You describe the exact reason I sold my Civic for a Rav4. My commute often had me looking at tires out my sides, headlights and grill in the rear, and a tow hitch out the front.

Re: The end of cool small cars

#115

Post by starkparker »

etempleton wrote: post #39
fmajid wrote: post #37

They are disappearing for the same reason as stick-shift cars or small phones. Consumer demonstrate with their preferences they think bigger is better.

You saw a resurgence of small cars in the US around 2010 after the US housing bubble burst. High unemployment + suppressed wages + high gas prices had Americans, particularly young Americans, looking for small compact cars.

Yeah, the Honda Fit was one of the best-selling cars in the US for a few years of the late 00s. Peaked around 2008, when it outsold the Ford Explorer and Chevy TrailBlazer.

Even then Honda sold about 450k fewer Fits that year than F-series trucks, and 120k fewer Fits than CR-V crossovers. Writing was on the wall by 2014, when Honda tried to sell an awful 20kWh/sub-100 mi. range EV Fit, and it never recovered. Gone completely from the US by 2020.

Re: The end of cool small cars

#116

Post by starkparker »

mysterydip wrote: post #41
leokennis wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love my 2010 Honda Jazz (called Fit in the US). Small, can carry loads of weirdly shaped stuff, roomy enough for two adults and two kids, unbreakable. And on summer holidays I rent a roof box for about €100/week so I can fit all our luggage.

I'm in the market for my next car (new or used), and I'd prefer something small like the fit/jazz. But I have 3 kids instead of 2, which seems like my only options from the last decade are MPVs or SUVs. I'd love to be wrong, though.

Had a similar problem car shopping to replace a 10-year-old Fit recently. Kia Rio can do it with tighter leg room, but lacks the Fit's fold-down seats if you want to swap kids for cargo, and has also been discontinued going forward. Chevy Sonic and Bolt/Volt hatches could squeeze theee in the back too, and the Sonic had the fold-down rear seats, but it's been discontinued since 2020 and the Volt and Bolt are in limbo.

Wound up unhappy with a larger, harder to park Subaru Impreza that in practice gets 15-20mpg less than the Fit, which also still sold used for $11k(!).

Re: The end of cool small cars

#117

Post by eindiran »

leokennis wrote: post #101
DiggyJohnson wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the "compensating" joke about large SUV and truck drivers has really run its course by this point.

Except for some edge cases, what else is the use of a 3,000kg 6m truck when it is transporting between 1 and 4 people except to compensate?

The point is that the compensating / micropenis jokes have been beating a dead horse for at least 10 years at this point. It's boring, it's embarrassing and it takes away from your message when you pepper them into your speech.

Re: The end of cool small cars

#118

Post by scott00 »

daisystanton wrote: post #69

As for the "why": I'd love to learn about all of the historical and regulatory incentives here. From what I've managed to cobble together, this is partly due to CAFE standards[1], partly due to Section 179 of the US tax code[2], and possibly(??) due to contractor demand[3]. [1]: In 2006, the NHTSA adopted a "footprint" approach to CAFE standards, where fuel efficiency standards are set based on the vehicle's wheelbas…

The elephants in the economic incentive room are:

(1) Taxation of environmental externalities caused by fossil-fuel driven transportation are nowhere near the socially optimal level.

(2) Fossil fuel production is massively subsidized, even beyond the lack of taxation offsetting environmental externalities.

Re: The end of cool small cars

#119

Post by marcellus23 »

leokennis wrote: post #101
DiggyJohnson wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the "compensating" joke about large SUV and truck drivers has really run its course by this point.

Except for some edge cases, what else is the use of a 3,000kg 6m truck when it is transporting between 1 and 4 people except to compensate?

How do you explain the women who drive these vehicles?

Re: The end of cool small cars

#120

Post by leokennis »

marcellus23 wrote: post #119
leokennis wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for some edge cases, what else is the use of a 3,000kg 6m truck when it is transporting between 1 and 4 people except to compensate?

How do you explain the women who drive these vehicles?

I’ve never seen a woman drive these (in The Netherlands). It’s always middle aged men.
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