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Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#321

Post by sofixa »

skydhash wrote: post #245
sofixa wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had Safari open itself a couple of times when clicking useless Apple links (I think in settings with more info?). Also, if i click the play button on my keyboard without anything recent to play, it will open the piece of shit that is Apple Music that I have never used nor opened by myself. If I open a document or spreadsheet in the default installed apps, saving them will save them in the proprietary shitty Appl…

It respects user choice where there’s a choice to be made. Most of your examples seems to points to things that are not included by design.

Not giving the user choice is a form of not respecting the user when talking about basics such as "don't save a document which came in a normal format into some proprietary nonsense unusable outside of an Apple device". This is actively hostile design.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#322

Post by smoldesu »

dijit wrote: post #173
DANmode wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When taken though that lens No thanks, I'll take properly managed freedom within my OS. > if we hadn't turned everything into a fucking web-app Could you elaborate?

>> if we hadn't turned everything into a fucking web-app > Could you elaborate? I run a web browser with JS turned off and the web is mostly unusable for me, even things that should be plain documents like news reports try to choke down a dozen or so megabytes of obfuscated garbage that it insists must run on my CPU doing goodness knows what to render a document in common markdown. So, despite being "free" you just r…

> I'm not pro apple here. I'm anti the enshittification of everything

That's a highly contradictory stance. Accepting one brand of enshittification to solve another, less-significant problem is an indefensible position. You can't ignore Apple's arbitrary shite while complaining about the prevalence of other arbitrary decisions, it's a go-nowhere fallacy. There is no point; you are just promoting something that you think can help you, and then refusing to rationalize it in the greater context beyond browsers.

There's no reason to paint this as an "enemy of my enemy" situation, either. You either think browser clients are a powerful tool that deserves better scrutiny, or you think the status quo is fine. Nobody is putting on armor and picking up a sword to go to war for their favorite corporate-sponsored browser. If anyone has you believe that, they're probably manipulating you.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#323

Post by seszett »

tempodox wrote: post #306
seszett wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the punishment was "comply in 180 days or we'll suspend your business charter" The punishment is generally "comply in 180 days [actually it's usually measured in years] or we'll fine you". And they often don't comply, and then get fined and sometimes end up complying. Why would your proposal be better?

Because the fines are just priced in as cost of doing business. They don't actually change anything.

But the very article we are discussing shows that it does change things, though?

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#324

Post by _silicon »

dantyti wrote: post #157
tmpX7dMeXU wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn’t disrespect set user preferences in the same way that Microsoft does. This sort of oversimplified drive-by whataboutism isn’t great for conversation.

Oh, they do. On my iPhone, I've: -changed the 'default browser' -'uninstalled' Safari Yet, whenever I want to search for a highlighted word, it opens Safari. This is such an absurd situation where I am browsing a site and want to do a search for something I just read and, instead of just opening a new tab or replacing the active tab with a web search, it opens a different browser app I do not want to use. This is jus…

Also I would argue that forcing everything to wrap WebKit is Apple’s own disrespect for user preference.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#325

Post by dijit »

smoldesu wrote: post #322
dijit wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> if we hadn't turned everything into a fucking web-app > Could you elaborate? I run a web browser with JS turned off and the web is mostly unusable for me, even things that should be plain documents like news reports try to choke down a dozen or so megabytes of obfuscated garbage that it insists must run on my CPU doing goodness knows what to render a document in common markdown. So, despite being "free" you just r…

> I'm not pro apple here. I'm anti the enshittification of everything That's a highly contradictory stance. Accepting one brand of enshittification to solve another, less-significant problem is an indefensible position. You can't ignore Apple's arbitrary shite while complaining about the prevalence of other arbitrary decisions, it's a go-nowhere fallacy. There is no point; you are just promoting something that you th…

Whatever you're selling, I am not buying it.

Apple doing shitty things is irrelevant because ultimately that applies to people who buy apple products and people who want to sell products that work on apple devices.

What Web Developers are doing affects me daily.

Apple pisses off web developers who want to turn a browser into an OS with crap like WebUSB? Not seeing a problem.

Apple actively prevents the monopoly position of v8/blink/Chrome? Not seeing a problem.

Apple has my support in-so-far as its the only company that seems to tell web developers "no".

Enemy of my enemy applies; No other company, especially one with any actual leverage, is preventing the lurch of web crap.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#326

Post by dijit »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #35
pavlov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EEA is practically “EU + a handful of countries that apply EU rules but don’t get to participate in decision making for historical reasons”. That’s why Britain didn’t even consider joining the EEA after they left the Union. From their point of view, it would still be the regulatory burden of EU membership without most of the benefits they enjoyed as a full member. When they’d decided to take the economic impact o…

No, they get the benefit of tariff-free and non-tariff-barrier-free trade in goods and services with EU members. That's a huge deal.

EEA still has the four freedoms which was not acceptable to the UK.

A smart person who has read up on EU/UK and some European migration situations will note that migration to e.g: Denmark/Switzerland is still difficult despite being part of those four freedoms. This is because they bothered to mitigate migration within the parameters of the law; since the right to work under EU's four freedoms only applies for 6 months.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#327

Post by tremon »

dijit wrote: post #220
xg15 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think Apple wouldn't consider HTML or CSS to be "source code" as well, if they see browser dominance as an advantage?

Apple had a pretty clear definition of interpreted code which boiled down to: "Does your interpreted download allow the user to write infinite loops or recursion?"

So, HTML: no but CSS: yes?

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#328

Post by tremon »

jrootabega wrote: post #197
user3939382 wrote: post #36

I'm loving M$ having to admit they're intentionally abusing their users by disrespecting their preferences even when it would cost them nothing to do so.

If respecting user preferences reduced Edge/MS ecosystem adoption, then that's a cost.

Not respecting user preferences also has a cost. It's just one that's harder to measure.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#329

Post by smoldesu »

dijit wrote: post #325
smoldesu wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not pro apple here. I'm anti the enshittification of everything That's a highly contradictory stance. Accepting one brand of enshittification to solve another, less-significant problem is an indefensible position. You can't ignore Apple's arbitrary shite while complaining about the prevalence of other arbitrary decisions, it's a go-nowhere fallacy. There is no point; you are just promoting something that you th…

Whatever you're selling, I am not buying it. Apple doing shitty things is irrelevant because ultimately that applies to people who buy apple products and people who want to sell products that work on apple devices. What Web Developers are doing affects me daily. Apple pisses off web developers who want to turn a browser into an OS with crap like WebUSB? Not seeing a problem. Apple actively prevents the monopoly posit…

> Apple pisses off web developers who want to turn a browser into an OS with crap like WebUSB? Not seeing a problem.

See, this is the problem. If Apple is going to charge you 30% to use a serialized data cable, they're going to get annihilated legislatively. That's not a choice the market gets to make, it's one market regulators decide on. As we've seen in multiple European countries, Apple doing shitty things is not irrelevant because they get fined for participating in said markets.

Thank god for the Digital Markets Act. Apple can take their performance art and sell it somewhere with proper authoritarianism, like China. Oh wait...

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#330

Post by jrootabega »

tremon wrote: post #328
jrootabega wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If respecting user preferences reduced Edge/MS ecosystem adoption, then that's a cost.

Not respecting user preferences also has a cost. It's just one that's harder to measure.

Yes, most everyone here understands that. Microsoft understands that better than anyone, and makes their decisions accordingly. The comment I replied to claimed that honoring user preferences had no cost.
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