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So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

theprivacydad.com

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Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#91

Post by kridsdale3 »

tracker1 wrote: post #72

For me, the single most disturbing is when I see ads based on casual conversations my phone happened to pick up. Such as mentioning a piece of software I used to use a decade ago, and seeing ads for that software daily for a week after. Another, is the first time I saw a calendar reminder to "leave for the airport" not that I set such a reminder, but gmail had received the receipt for my airline tickets. The most dis…

I worked at Meta for many years. We extensively researched this phenomenon ("I was talking about XYZ, then 30 minutes later, I saw an ad for it! The mics must be on!")

The conclusion we drew was much more nefarious than "the machines are listening". It's that you, personally, are a very basic machine of patterns and habit. You took as input some signal that you were not concious of which STIMULATED you to talk about XYZ. That same signal was in your environment. It stimulated others who match your demographic profile. They made explicit search engine queries for it. Since you are almost exactly the same person as the people in your environment, you are a high-value user account to target that same ad to since the likelihood that it would be in your unconscious mind and thus trigger a buy-signal when you see the ad is higher.

TLDR, you are not special. You are a meat computer consuming the same environmental input data as everyone you know. You are almost the same in your behavior and desires as your peers. If this wasn't true, ad targeting would not be worth a bazillion dollars.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#92

Post by skybrian »

ashleyn wrote: post #64
skybrian wrote: post #40

I like that they directly tried to answer this question, but I still think the "so what" case is stronger, for me anyway. I don't use an ad blocker and there are certain sites that are annoying, but I think the biggest influence on me is that I avoid those websites. I don't notice the actual ads very often (other than as an annoyance) and I don't buy very much. What I buy seems more influenced by other things like Wi…

There was a significant problem years ago, annoying to power users but dangerous to most other users, where I would be on a website reading an article and then all of a sudden I get redirected out of the article into "Hit 5 ducks and win today's prize" or "Your computer has malware and requires remediation" - intrusive scams seeking to deceive the user into installing malware. This problem was bad enough that I insta…

Haven't seen it in quite a while so I think it must have been dealt with somehow.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#93

Post by tracker1 »

skybrian wrote: post #85
tracker1 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think it's important to maximize personal liberty... even for those you don't agree with. It's disturbing how many people support overt censorship and thought crimes. Eventually it can and will be used against you. Govt in general will always abuse every power granted in the end, and everything you let it do to attack "the other side" can be turned on you.

This is a classic example of an ideological argument. But of course ideology is important to many people.

Of course it's an ideological argument. Censorship in general is almost always about ideology.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#94

Post by fmajid »

corv wrote: post #19
Deukhoofd wrote: post #11

I think a great example of why data privacy matters was the recent concern many American women had about whether data collected by their period tracking app could be used to persecute them for abortions. While you might believe that the data being collected about you is harmless, a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

An even more worrying account of data hoarding was when homosexuals were registered and later sent to concentration camps... (Yes, I've just invoked Godwin's law) In my opinion data should be regarded as a liability by default. We can't rely on a given corporation being benign, or not cooperating with a given regime forever.

No Godwin necessary. There are plenty of countries like Saudi Arabia or Uganda where in 2023 your sexual orientation can be a capital offense.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#95

Post by theprivacydad »

javajosh wrote: post #55
skybrian wrote: post #40

I like that they directly tried to answer this question, but I still think the "so what" case is stronger, for me anyway. I don't use an ad blocker and there are certain sites that are annoying, but I think the biggest influence on me is that I avoid those websites. I don't notice the actual ads very often (other than as an annoyance) and I don't buy very much. What I buy seems more influenced by other things like Wi…

The real reason, which I don't hear voiced often, is because you're not getting enough value for your data. Your data has value to advertisers, but to many other entities, private and public. Your data has value, and Google has high profit margins on that value. To be able to extract more value from your own data for yourself, you need to be able to deny Google access to it, and then sell it back to them. If enough p…

yes

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#96

Post by fmajid »

bachmeier wrote: post #63
Deukhoofd wrote: post #11

I think a great example of why data privacy matters was the recent concern many American women had about whether data collected by their period tracking app could be used to persecute them for abortions. While you might believe that the data being collected about you is harmless, a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

> a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect A future government - one that is very different from the one currently in power or that you ever imagined possible - could use that data against you with great effect. A foreign government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect. An institution hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect. A c…

One of my wife's friends was married to a senior Google engineer, and after a messy divorce needed help to avoid stalking by him. In addition to being a privacy roach motel, Google had shockingly bad controls and auditing to detect and punish abuse, not sure if that's still the case but I wouldn't be surprised.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#97

Post by acumenical »

I find it tiresome that blogposts about privacy always end up devolving into a discussion about how data can be used against individuals. There is a flip side to that coin, which is the individual's free will. Every one of us here chooses our actions, every day. If we don't like what Google knows about us, maybe it is time to ask ourselves hard questions, and to learn to truly accept ourselves as well as improving where we fall short.

This includes phenomena such as polarizing news causing social strife. If we simply took the time to understand how things are connected as well as how things are not, we would not so easily fall victim to propaganda. We can't just use the excuse that since Google knows our search history that we have no control over whether we are polarized. We also can't assume that once we de-Google our lives that we are any more properly prepared against polarizing propaganda. Lessons of mindfulness toward our neighbors' struggles don't come for free.

On top of that, the author of the linked blogpost is fooling himself. Other than halfway proving a point, he hasn't solved much. By continuing to use Google Maps he essentially makes a great deal of his online activity discoverable, undoing much of his work to "de-Google" his life.

Furthermore, Google has settings to blunt ad targeting, which seem quite effective, and you'll end up learning about CNC machines and dental drills in between your YouTube binges. If there was someone I'd accuse of dark patterns with ad targeting, that someone would be Meta.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#98

Post by fmajid »

ashleyn wrote: post #82
bachmeier wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect A future government - one that is very different from the one currently in power or that you ever imagined possible - could use that data against you with great effect. A foreign government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect. An institution hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect. A c…

A media outlet hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect - and it's already happened. The owners of Sanctioned Suicide were deanonymised by the NYT in part from illegally obtained data - the Epik breach.[1] These were individuals who intended on staying pseudonymous, operated something that was legal-but-disagreeable-to-the-public, but yet fell victim to a hack that spilled their identity. And…

Or the despicable doxxing by the NYT of Scott Alexander, author of the blog State Star Codex.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#99

Post by theprivacydad »

skybrian wrote: post #58
Deukhoofd wrote: post #11

I think a great example of why data privacy matters was the recent concern many American women had about whether data collected by their period tracking app could be used to persecute them for abortions. While you might believe that the data being collected about you is harmless, a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

That's an example of being concerned, though. That is, people imagine a possible future and they are concerned about it. When we think about the future, this is the stuff of imagination, storytelling, and mathematical models. It's mental constructs, not something that actually happened. Many examples used in privacy arguments are like that. If you instead look for things that actually happened, it's things like journ…

I think what's new here is that digital data can be store long-term easily.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#100

Post by theprivacydad »

timmg wrote: post #45

I'll probably get hate for this, but: I've never used an ad blocker. I (generally) always "accept all cookies" from that European thing. I do use "incognito mode" sometimes -- but not often. I've never gotten any malware or other things like that. I've never had someone show up at my door in a black coat. I personally think that most of the concerns people have about targeted ads is much ado about nothing. I'll also…

https://theprivacydad.com/what-is-your-isp/ I wrote about that here. I read my ISP's entire privacy policy and asked them for a report of all the info they have about me. It is a concern, but not the topic of this article.
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