So what if Google sends me targeted ads? • Hacker News Board

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#71

Post by skybrian » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #55

skybrian wrote: post #40

I like that they directly tried to answer this question, but I still think the "so what" case is stronger, for me anyway. I don't use an ad blocker and there are certain sites that are annoying, but I think the biggest influence on me is that I avoid those websites. I don't notice the actual ads very often (other than as an annoyance) and I don't buy very much. What I buy seems more influenced by other things like Wi…

The real reason, which I don't hear voiced often, is because you're not getting enough value for your data. Your data has value to advertisers, but to many other entities, private and public. Your data has value, and Google has high profit margins on that value. To be able to extract more value from your own data for yourself, you need to be able to deny Google access to it, and then sell it back to them. If enough p…

Maybe, but this is an example of a theoretical / ideological argument.

If we needed more money, it seems like there are easier ways to get it than trying to get a better bargain for information about us? We could be more careful about spending. I could shop around more. There are games with credit card rewards that I don't really play. I could invest better.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#72

Post by tracker1 » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:31 PM UTC

For me, the single most disturbing is when I see ads based on casual conversations my phone happened to pick up. Such as mentioning a piece of software I used to use a decade ago, and seeing ads for that software daily for a week after. Another, is the first time I saw a calendar reminder to "leave for the airport" not that I set such a reminder, but gmail had received the receipt for my airline tickets. The most disturbing is seeing a product on Amazon, where "your friend purchased this", fortunately it was a switch, but can only imagine something more personal being the case.

At this point, I have ublock origin, privacy guard and run a pi-hole at home. I use wireguard through home on my phone so that it forces the vpn's dns through pi-hole. On top of using Brave on my mobile device. I'm tired of it. More tiresome is the number of sites that are actually broken, especially purchases without the tracking events. More companies should ensure that their payment flows work without the tracking in place. When I have worked on consumer facing applications, I always tried to make sure the fallback display without ads and the workflows were friendly. No gaping holes where an ad would be and no waiting on tracking events for checkout flows.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#73

Post by ashleyn » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:34 PM UTC

Deukhoofd wrote: post #11

I think a great example of why data privacy matters was the recent concern many American women had about whether data collected by their period tracking app could be used to persecute them for abortions. While you might believe that the data being collected about you is harmless, a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

In a world where data is carelessly collected and insecurely stored, it won't just be prosecutors using it to obstruct access to abortion or gender affirming care. It will be organised online harassment campaigns as well, using ML to comb through combinations of legally and illegally obtained data - years and years worth - to build an instant dossier on anyone they deem a target, and highlight aspects of their personal life that they had never intended to come to light, or even thought would one day be angering enough to justify widespread harassment.

The article used Google Ads as an example. Let's say, god forbid, Google Ads suffers a breach, and it turns out they didn't anonymise the data used to build personalised ads at all. Any one of these organised harassment campaigns can pick out targets of their ire simply by what was recommended to them in ads.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#74

Post by biogene » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:35 PM UTC

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #7

Meh, I'm still not convinced. I mean, I suppose I get possibly being creeped out that Google knows you prefer Pepsi over Coke and that you recently purchased an adult toy or whatever, but...meh? So they'll use that data to sell me targeted ads that I'm just going to block anyways. I just don't see how it's actually harmful beyond the government access issue that's just dropped in as a single sentence at the end of on…

Google employees can access this data too; and sometimes they get fired. Do you know anyone who has been the victim of online harassment or having personal data leaked online? Its a harrowing experience.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#75

Post by tracker1 » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #40

I like that they directly tried to answer this question, but I still think the "so what" case is stronger, for me anyway. I don't use an ad blocker and there are certain sites that are annoying, but I think the biggest influence on me is that I avoid those websites. I don't notice the actual ads very often (other than as an annoyance) and I don't buy very much. What I buy seems more influenced by other things like Wi…

Amazon really bugs me in that you can't filter by seller anymore... I would usually filter and buy only from Amazon. Makes it literally harder to use, and I've actually started using it less as a result.

For me, the bigger risk in the ad networks is the viral vector. It's way too easy to inject ads with viral outcomes into the ad networks, still. It's the same reason I disabled flash at home, when I found out I could get local filesystem access from some work projects. It's more about sanitation than anything else.

The fact that tracking has become wholy excessive is the other issue... when you start seeing ads for things mentioned only in voice conversation, it's creepy to say the least. And frankly, I'm done with it. uBlock origin, privacy guard, pihole all in place.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#76

Post by hennell » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

ccvannorman wrote: post #33

agnosticmantis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what are some examples of Google packaging and reselling data?

this is a serious question? Google collects anything and everything they possibly can, from every user who touches any of their software, platforms or devices. They then sell this data on dozens or hundreds of data broker platforms. Data includes your web browsing history, location history, passive microphone recording history and email history ("anonymized" but still meta data)

But what actual examples are there of this? Evidence that they actually do this. Facebook has had a number of big stories and leaks showing they sell info on to other parties, but Google seems to sell advertising access rather then the data itself, which is pretty legit to it's policies.

(And while I'd agree they seem to collect data from anything they possibly can, they seem to poorly underuse that data collection as far as I can tell. I use quite a bit of google stuff and their ads profile for me is still a total mess including things I actively hate. If they struggle with not targeting me for things I've told them I hate, it's hard to feel too worried about how they're going to factor in their passive microphone recording data)

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#77

Post by DharmaPolice » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

Deukhoofd wrote: post #11

I think a great example of why data privacy matters was the recent concern many American women had about whether data collected by their period tracking app could be used to persecute them for abortions. While you might believe that the data being collected about you is harmless, a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

In that case though the data collection is presumably required (to some extent) for the app to function. If you're tracking a users periods then you presumably need to store data about their period.

It's probably a case for why we should have anonymous users accounts for those kind of services. I don't know how practical that is.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#78

Post by tracker1 » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

bachmeier wrote: post #63

Deukhoofd wrote: post #11

I think a great example of why data privacy matters was the recent concern many American women had about whether data collected by their period tracking app could be used to persecute them for abortions. While you might believe that the data being collected about you is harmless, a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

> a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect A future government - one that is very different from the one currently in power or that you ever imagined possible - could use that data against you with great effect. A foreign government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect. An institution hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect. A c…

The case with foreign govts are expressly part of why I'm unlikely to ever visit certain countries. Being critical of a foreign govt online can get you in trouble if you ever need/want to visit. Best case, you get turned back... but can only imagine how bad a worst case could get.

Or, having your own govt take you out with a drone strike while on foreign soil.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#79

Post by tracker1 » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #58

Deukhoofd wrote: post #11

I think a great example of why data privacy matters was the recent concern many American women had about whether data collected by their period tracking app could be used to persecute them for abortions. While you might believe that the data being collected about you is harmless, a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

That's an example of being concerned, though. That is, people imagine a possible future and they are concerned about it. When we think about the future, this is the stuff of imagination, storytelling, and mathematical models. It's mental constructs, not something that actually happened. Many examples used in privacy arguments are like that. If you instead look for things that actually happened, it's things like journ…

I also think it's important to maximize personal liberty... even for those you don't agree with. It's disturbing how many people support overt censorship and thought crimes. Eventually it can and will be used against you. Govt in general will always abuse every power granted in the end, and everything you let it do to attack "the other side" can be turned on you.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#80

Post by mathstuf » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

ipython wrote: post #4

russdill wrote: post #2

"My supermarket has a savings scheme, in exchange for my personal information. The way it works is that the cashier asks: do you want to join this savings scheme? If the customer says yes, they give you a form to fill in your details. If you say no, they leave you alone, and you miss out on the discount or gifts." Hahahaha, yes, if you don't join their club, they don't collect personal information.

Or you just provide someone else’s information. Who says you have to share your true name with your supermarket? Unfortunately it’s very difficult to lie to google

One strategy I heard about is to get a local group of like-minded individuals together, throw all of your loyalty cards in a communal pile then take one back randomly. That mixes the signal up for any kind of targeted tracking while also getting you the discounts. Or you can just say "I forgot my card" and use the store copy that is usually at the register (at least for groceries).