So what if Google sends me targeted ads? • Hacker News Board

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#61

Post by nobody9999 » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:15 PM UTC

jwells89 wrote: post #21

imiric wrote: post #8

Something the article doesn't mention is that your data is not only used to target you with ads. It's also used to target you with propaganda or any political or social agenda a person, organization or state is willing to pay for. Adtech is the perfect weapon of information warfare, and it's been successfuly used to influence public opinion, and corrupt democratic processes (e.g. Cambridge Analytica). Both ads and pr…

Indeed. It's often said that's what's being traded away when using ad-supported products is attention, and that's true, but only partially. Users also trade away some amount of control over their own way of thinking and decision-making processes because whether one realizes it or not, no matter how hard they may try to firewall off external input, ads influence us. Framing it that way, it becomes clear how unequal of…

>Indeed. It's often said that's what's being traded away when using ad-supported products is attention, and that's true, but only partially. Users also trade away some amount of control over their own way of thinking and decision-making processes because whether one realizes it or not, no matter how hard they may try to firewall off external input, ads influence us.

I'd add that network bandwidth, CPU cycles, storage and RAM are being traded away as well, since the means to capture your data and attention also executes locally and are stored on your systems as well.

Which makes things even more unequal.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#62

Post by pbhjpbhj » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:16 PM UTC

alphabetting wrote: post #16

Obviously in a very small minority here but I decided almost 10 years ago to give them as much data as possible because they were leading in AI and I want AI to have access to as much data on me as possible to make life easier when it gets smart enough. Hasn't panned out yet but I don't really regret it.

This is an interesting take:

>AI to have access to as much data on me as possible to make life easier when it gets smart enough //

And it would seem reasonable if Google's aim were to provide you good AI services rather than to extract as much money from you as possible (and no longer with the benefit of not being evil).

Doesn't OpenAI seizing a large chunk of the personal-services LLM market show that you should have just put all your data on the web to be included in Common Crawl? Or at least that Google (well FAANGs) unprecedented access to user data didn't result in them accelerating their AI dominance. I know Google have done a lot, BERT, TensorFlow and such, but that seems to have been orthogonal to having access to user PII.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#63

Post by bachmeier » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:17 PM UTC

Deukhoofd wrote: post #11

I think a great example of why data privacy matters was the recent concern many American women had about whether data collected by their period tracking app could be used to persecute them for abortions. While you might believe that the data being collected about you is harmless, a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

> a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect

A future government - one that is very different from the one currently in power or that you ever imagined possible - could use that data against you with great effect.

A foreign government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

An institution hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

A corporation hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

A stalker could use that data against you with great effect.

And so on.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#64

Post by ashleyn » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #40

I like that they directly tried to answer this question, but I still think the "so what" case is stronger, for me anyway. I don't use an ad blocker and there are certain sites that are annoying, but I think the biggest influence on me is that I avoid those websites. I don't notice the actual ads very often (other than as an annoyance) and I don't buy very much. What I buy seems more influenced by other things like Wi…

There was a significant problem years ago, annoying to power users but dangerous to most other users, where I would be on a website reading an article and then all of a sudden I get redirected out of the article into "Hit 5 ducks and win today's prize" or "Your computer has malware and requires remediation" - intrusive scams seeking to deceive the user into installing malware.

This problem was bad enough that I installed Brave on my phone simply for the rootless adblocker. These redirects even came from reputable news websites like WaPo or NYT - they weren't confined to "literally who?" websites using "literally who?" ad networks.

Ever since then I've used an adblocker on both desktop and mobile simply for this reason. And I've recommended others install adblockers as well, because they may not be aware that it's not your operating system telling you you have malware, it's a website trying to get you to install malware.

If this problem has receded in recent years, I'd say, "Great!" and be a little more chill about it. But until then, I staunchly recommend ad blockers just as protection from malware redirects that Google et al seemed very unconcerned about or unable to deal with effectively.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#65

Post by bad_alloc » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

Privacy at its core is a preventative measure against being controlled. The state, a corporation or other individuals have an easier time exerting influence over you if they know more about you. Obtaining information is a largely automated task today.

And sure, your country might be fine now, but over the course of history a lot of people suddenly woke up to their government turning totalitarian. Same goes for your insurance, your school, your workplace: All can suddenly work against you and it is preferable to avoid giving them too much information to use against you.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#66

Post by philote » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

timmg wrote: post #45

I'll probably get hate for this, but: I've never used an ad blocker. I (generally) always "accept all cookies" from that European thing. I do use "incognito mode" sometimes -- but not often. I've never gotten any malware or other things like that. I've never had someone show up at my door in a black coat. I personally think that most of the concerns people have about targeted ads is much ado about nothing. I'll also…

Do you also avoid getting life insurance because you've never died before? For me, like the author of the article, it's not the targeted ads that are concerning, but the amount of data one company can have and aggregate in once place. Even if that data isn't being used in a nefarious way now doesn't mean that it never will be. Also, I AM concerned about banks and telephone companies selling my data, but that wasn't the topic of this article.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#67

Post by hbn » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

timmg wrote: post #45

I'll probably get hate for this, but: I've never used an ad blocker. I (generally) always "accept all cookies" from that European thing. I do use "incognito mode" sometimes -- but not often. I've never gotten any malware or other things like that. I've never had someone show up at my door in a black coat. I personally think that most of the concerns people have about targeted ads is much ado about nothing. I'll also…

I directly benefit from my credit card company keeping tabs on spending for fraud prevention. Could say a similar thing for phone companies logging calls, in the case of e.g. someone spoofing your number and doing something illegal - authorities can request that info and find the call never came from you.

I can't imagine a scenario where random websites tracking my internet browsing benefits me in any way, other than maybe advertising a product I'd actually like?

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#68

Post by falcolas » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:23 PM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #58

Deukhoofd wrote: post #11

I think a great example of why data privacy matters was the recent concern many American women had about whether data collected by their period tracking app could be used to persecute them for abortions. While you might believe that the data being collected about you is harmless, a government hostile to you could use that data against you with great effect.

That's an example of being concerned, though. That is, people imagine a possible future and they are concerned about it. When we think about the future, this is the stuff of imagination, storytelling, and mathematical models. It's mental constructs, not something that actually happened. Many examples used in privacy arguments are like that. If you instead look for things that actually happened, it's things like journ…

If you are gay, transsexual, or a woman, (or assist one of those groups with getting medical care) that "war" is upon you now.

And, this war has been foretold for decades now.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#69

Post by philote » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:25 PM UTC

jccalhoun wrote: post #15

If they are collecting so much data why do the ads still suck? I bought a pixel 7a and I still get ads for it all the time. You would think that google would know that I already bought a google phone from them.

Exactly this. I tend to ignore ads that show up, because they're generally not useful for me. I've also noticed this most in Google News. If I search for one topic one time on Google (usually just to find some random bit of info), Google thinks I'm very interested in that topic and starts showing me news articles related to it. Or if I search for a song in Youtube Music, I get articles about that song or band. It's ridiculous. I've started using DDG for search now, and may move to Spotify. I need to find a good news aggregator, too.

Re: So what if Google sends me targeted ads?

#70

Post by biogene » Wed, Aug 30, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

timmg wrote: post #45

I'll probably get hate for this, but: I've never used an ad blocker. I (generally) always "accept all cookies" from that European thing. I do use "incognito mode" sometimes -- but not often. I've never gotten any malware or other things like that. I've never had someone show up at my door in a black coat. I personally think that most of the concerns people have about targeted ads is much ado about nothing. I'll also…

This type of concentration of power in a privately held for-profit corporate entity is bad. There isn't any reason to trust a random Google employee - dozens of whom have been fired by Google for accessing personal data. Removing the temptation from an unaccountable giant corporation is the best approach, IMO. Abuse of power doesn't affect everyone; but we still have laws against many forms of it.