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Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#291

Post by jabroni_salad »

foobarbecue wrote: post #109

Every time I visit my parents, I find they've reverted to using Edge and don't know why. Despite my best efforts, they don't seem to have the will or technical ability to resist M$ manipulation. It's frustrating.

For a lot of consumers, using a computer involves a bunch of incomprehensible popups informing them "heres some bullshit button you have to click on to get on with things" until they finally arrive at their destination. They do not know what any of it does and are effectively lost until they get to somewhere familiar. You can trick them into doing literally anything as long as you put a blue button next to a grey button.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#292

Post by pessimizer »

cebert wrote: post #280

I am very irritated that I have made it very clear that I wish to use Firefox as my default browser in Windows 11. However, tools such as Microsoft Outlook and Office keep trying to force me into Edge by opening links in it by default. You don't gain converts by forcing something onto users.

> You don't gain converts by forcing something onto users.

You're not looking for converts when you're forcing somebody to do something. Most of Microsoft's business has always been about forcing people to use things. The other choice is a company that you have to pay a premium to choose, but then you're forced to stay or else lose your stake. None of this is competition, it's all market manipulation.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#293

Post by pbmonster »

ffhhttt wrote: post #192
echelon wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't even allow other browsers that aren't webkit reskins on iOS, which is far worse. Both companies need regulatory actions to reign them in. Apple probably needs to be broken up.

Out of all the major tech companies that you could “break up” doing that to Apple would probably make the least sense. Integration between devices/software is their entire selling point.

Yes? That's a feature? I mean, nobody wants to break up companies in order to make the companies more effective or more profitable.

It's always done to end monopolies, to open up closed markets. The people benefiting are consumers and competitors, not Apple itself.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#294

Post by heftig »

kroltan wrote: post #28
mrweasel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes me wonder: What are the rules for something to be considered a browser? Does it need to provide certain functionality, or can I register anything as a browser and just have links open in an editor?

In Windows, default applications are registered either by URL scheme (so ftp, http, https, gopher...) or file extension (.txt, .html, .pdf, .mp4...). As far as I know there is no special registration for "browsers" specifically, you just register your application as a handler for whatever protocols and file formats you want. So if you want to make your random executable be "a browser", my guess is you should register…

To enforce the use of Edge, they're using URLs with the "microsoft-edge" scheme.

Some time ago Microsoft made it impossible to reassign this scheme to another app like EdgeDeflector.

PS: It was KB5007262 that "addresses an issue that might improperly redirect OS functionality when you invoke microsoft-edge: links."

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#295

Post by dark-star »

pjerem wrote: post #232
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #208

> In the European Economic Area (EEA), Windows system components use the default browser to open links. That shows such complete and utter contempt for the wishes of their users. The user has actively selected a browser as the one they want to use by default, but windows only uses it in the EEA because they were forced to. As it will be used by EEA system components, there's presumably no technical/compatibility issu…

> there's presumably no technical/compatibility issues that would stop the rest of the world using it to. There never were an technical issue in defining the default browser. It's something that worked on any OS since nearly 30 years, including Windows. It's 100% disrespect.

Not completely correct. In the past there were technical issues opening "system service sites" with any other browser, because ActiveX controls only worked in Internet Explorer

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#296

Post by sanitycheck »

kergonath wrote: post #276
teddyh wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the original vision for the iPhone was web-apps not native ones As I heard, that was just the cover story to hide the fact that the original iPhone was too slow to properly run Flash (or native apps).

Not really. I mean, iPhones were slower than laptops back then but that’s not saying much as all phones were in the same ballpark at best. The actual reasons are well documented: it was a ressource hog (on all platforms, not only phones; there were still netbooks around), sucked batteries dry (including on both Windows and Mac laptops with much better batteries than phones), and was unstable (being the leading cause…

Eh. Jobs was disingenuous at the best of times, I had Flash Lite running fine on Symbian a year or so before the iPhone hit the market.

I'm not saying it was great, but performance/efficiency was massively better than similar code in JS at the time. (And several years later, I rewrote a Flash app for ancient Tivo boxes in HTML/JS - same functionality, half the performance even after a lot of fine tuning.)

He was on firmer ground complaining about the bugs & security issues admittedly!

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#297

Post by pbmonster »

simooooo wrote: post #187
JacobSeated wrote: post #179

This is the expected, most intuitive, and only sensible behavior, and yet Microsoft somehow, for some reason, decides it is okay not to use the default browser? Wait a minute. Are they trying to cause me to have a complete meltdown? This is so irritating. The task bar can also no longer be placed vertically on the left or right. Imo. Microsoft should be forced to open source important parts of Windows so that these p…

The other day, I got an explicit “please use Edge” popup on my desktop. They don’t currently care about the EU

And it's not even happy if you're using Edge already (as I have to for work). When you're browsing in Edge, it will sometimes - mid-typing - just pop up a tab with an add for Bing and it's new AI features.

And it's a real tab, not a pop-up, so I haven't figured out how to tell uBlock to suppress it yet.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#298

Post by wishfish »

denton-scratch wrote: post #229
wishfish wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as an American, I'm jealous of the EU approach. Yes, I think some of the EU regulations are silly. But they're taking a default position in favor of the citizens. Not in favor of the corporations. In this day and age, that's kinda heartwarming. Here in the US we're obviously in the opposite situation. We get some good protections occasionally, but the default position is almost always pro-corporate. With ext…

> Even if it leads to more annoying cookie banners. Those are not the result of EU regulation; they're not even compliant with EU regs, usually. I don't know for sure why companies put up those stupid banners, but I suspect it's partly a kind of protest, and partly an (illegal) attempt to trick users into consenting to data collection.

Thanks for the correction. I always assumed those banners were to comply with the regulations. Nice to know the companies are being annoying for no reason.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#299

Post by GrinningFool »

_fat_santa wrote: post #265
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #208

> In the European Economic Area (EEA), Windows system components use the default browser to open links. That shows such complete and utter contempt for the wishes of their users. The user has actively selected a browser as the one they want to use by default, but windows only uses it in the EEA because they were forced to. As it will be used by EEA system components, there's presumably no technical/compatibility issu…

I have to ask a really basic question: Why does Microsoft have such a vested interest in users using Edge over competitors? I get the argument: "it's their browser, of course they want people to use it" but for me that answer isn't satisfactory. What is the financial motive to go through all the trouble of pushing Edge? The only reason I can think of is "your data" but even then, what sort of data might MS want to ex…

A generous interpretation is that they don't want to worry about the resources used by internal OS components being compatible across infinite variety of browser vendors, versions, add-ons (and those versions), etc.

Re: Windows 11 system components use the default browser to open links in Europe

#300

Post by danuker »

NeoTar wrote: post #268
Spivak wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the stance is that while what the EU does is good for the consumer it's annoying as hell for American tech companies to be assessed billion dollar fines all the time. If the punishment was "comply in 180 days or we'll suspend your business charter" I think you'd see a lot more support.

If they obeyed the rules to begin with they wouldn't be fined. It's literally a calculated risk by the big tech companies that the cost of compliance will be less than the profits during the time of non-compliance.

Sadly it pays off. The biggest ones are the worst. Windows has been rewriting boot loaders and bullying smaller companies with SmartScreen Application Reputation. Android has forced everyone through FCM (or suffer degraded experience). Apple adds software glitches if you replace iPhone parts.

Where are the regulators? Asleep, underfunded, or being paid off to close their eyes. And then, these companies get to write the laws through lobbying because of their scale.

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