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Ask HN: How can I meaningfully object to WhatsApp processing of my information?

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Re: Ask HN: How can I meaningfully object to WhatsApp processing of my information?

#41

Post by _8ysf »

paxys wrote: post #18
Msurrow wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you are wrong if OP is based in the EU. Every member state has DPA - Data Protection Authorities that citizens can contact and/or report companies that are voilating. They have the authority to investigate and hand out fines(1), which in GDPR can be rather significant. https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-topic/data-protection/r... (1): Its incorrect to say they have the authority to hand out fines, but I dont…

Sure and what EU policies is WhatsApp violating?

If you read my link above, WhatsApp literally told me that I could object to some data collection as per the EU regulations.

WhatsApp showed me a popup telling me that!

Re: Ask HN: How can I meaningfully object to WhatsApp processing of my information?

#42

Post by low_common »

jtode wrote: post #36
low_common wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What platform are you talking about? You're borderline incoherent here.

If you are not aware of certain facts in certain parts of the world, it certainly would sound that way.

You're not naming the platform that you have a problem with and now you're just rambling. Trolling isn't taken lightly here ...

Re: Ask HN: How can I meaningfully object to WhatsApp processing of my information?

#43

Post by _8ysf »

jacooper wrote: post #30
LoganDark wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anything will ever change that. The problem isn't WhatsApp but the general problem of "each person is only reachable via certain contact methods" which can't ever be solved by anything.

The DSA forces platforms to allow federation and to expose public API endpoints. So it solves this because it makes it possible for your to talk with someone on a different app.

The risk being that the experience will be miserable. I can totally imagine a world where you can talk between Signal and WhatsApp, but reactions don't work, sending files doesn't work properly, changing permissions in a group doesn't propagate, etc.

Unless you force everybody to use the exact same protocol, with the exact same features, and to never add or change a feature.

Re: Ask HN: How can I meaningfully object to WhatsApp processing of my information?

#44

Post by [deleted] »

withinboredom wrote: post #33
SenAnder wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a for-profit company has a fairly compelling argument that 'business intelligence and analytics' is a strong legitimate interest If profit were sufficient justification, the regulation would be toothless.

Have there been any court cases proving it wasn't sufficient justification?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How can I meaningfully object to WhatsApp processing of my information?

#45

Post by mattmanser »

withinboredom wrote: post #33
SenAnder wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a for-profit company has a fairly compelling argument that 'business intelligence and analytics' is a strong legitimate interest If profit were sufficient justification, the regulation would be toothless.

Have there been any court cases proving it wasn't sufficient justification?

https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-law/news/cjeu-define-scope...

Looks like that very question is with the EU courts at the moment.

But confusingly, yes, there are other court cases you can find online that have said that profit alone is not a legitimate interest.

Re: Ask HN: How can I meaningfully object to WhatsApp processing of my information?

#46

Post by jtode »

low_common wrote: post #42
jtode wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are not aware of certain facts in certain parts of the world, it certainly would sound that way.

You're not naming the platform that you have a problem with and now you're just rambling. Trolling isn't taken lightly here ...

Sigh.

We're discussing WhatsApp in this post. Read the subject line.

I mentioned war crimes, and the [word] Rohingya, and that is enough for any curious mind to google and learn what I am talking about.

But since you're determined to do a thorough demonstration of willful incuriosity, what I am talking about is, Facebook, owned by Meta, which owns WhatsApp, was used as a platform to foment and execute a genocide in the country of Mynanmar, against the Rohingya muslim minority. Meta executives knew about it and did nothing, cause hey, brown people in that part of the world, who cares.

Enjoy talking to your grandpa or whatever.

Re: Ask HN: How can I meaningfully object to WhatsApp processing of my information?

#47

Post by Msurrow »

paxys wrote: post #20
Msurrow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, thats not the point. The comment above asserted that OP cannot “move the needle”. I’d say thats incorrect. If WhatsApp is voilating gdpr.

That is precisely the point. "Hey guys how can I take down Facebook?" Well you need proof of wrongdoing first, and don't have any. How is writing yet more emails in different words going to help?

One of the roles of the DPA is to investigate and collect formal prof of wrongdoing. So no, you do not need proof og wrongdoing, you just need enough to get the DPA to investigate. For example, a fundamental priciple of gdpr is that of data minimization; a data controller must do whatever they can do minimize the data they collect and process. Another fundamental right is the right of access, meaning the right to get told all the data a data controller is collecting and processing about tje subject. Say WhatsApp list the data they collect, and say that list is very long. Then I dont think it would be difficult to argue [to the DPA] that WhatsApp is breaking the principle of minimization. Perhaps enough to start an investigation.

There are a bit more to it than that, lile ligitimate interests etc, but on the other hand gdpr has many more priciples and fundamental rights for companies to break

Re: Ask HN: How can I meaningfully object to WhatsApp processing of my information?

#48

Post by d1sxeyes »

SenAnder wrote: post #25
d1sxeyes wrote: post #23

I have to say, that privacy policy is pretty comprehensive, and the questions they are asking seem fair. They don't need to prove that they NEED it, just that they have a legitimate interest in collecting it which outweighs your right to privacy and your objection to it. Just because Signal does not collect it does not mean that WhatsApp don't have a legitimate interest in collecting it. In particular, a for-profit c…

> a for-profit company has a fairly compelling argument that 'business intelligence and analytics' is a strong legitimate interest If profit were sufficient justification, the regulation would be toothless.

That's a bit of an oversimplification of my point. Profit is not a blanket justification for everything. However, when considering the legitimate interests of a company, it's important to look at the services they are offering (and what pricing they have for those service), as well as their overall business model.

WhatsApp saying 'we need this information for business intelligence purposes so we can grow our core business' is an argument that they have a legitimate interest in processing that data, and should be considered during their balancing test.

Signal, on the other hand, would struggle to rely on this argument, as their core business is to provide a service for free, funded by donations.

Re: Ask HN: How can I meaningfully object to WhatsApp processing of my information?

#49

Post by jacooper »

_8ysf wrote: post #43
jacooper wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The DSA forces platforms to allow federation and to expose public API endpoints. So it solves this because it makes it possible for your to talk with someone on a different app.

The risk being that the experience will be miserable. I can totally imagine a world where you can talk between Signal and WhatsApp, but reactions don't work, sending files doesn't work properly, changing permissions in a group doesn't propagate, etc. Unless you force everybody to use the exact same protocol, with the exact same features, and to never add or change a feature.

I think there is a baseline specified in the regulation, not sure which features it includes though.

Re: Ask HN: How can I meaningfully object to WhatsApp processing of my information?

#50

Post by low_common »

jtode wrote: post #46
low_common wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not naming the platform that you have a problem with and now you're just rambling. Trolling isn't taken lightly here ...

Sigh. We're discussing WhatsApp in this post. Read the subject line. I mentioned war crimes, and the [word] Rohingya, and that is enough for any curious mind to google and learn what I am talking about. But since you're determined to do a thorough demonstration of willful incuriosity, what I am talking about is, Facebook, owned by Meta, which owns WhatsApp, was used as a platform to foment and execute a genocide in t…

For every bad thing that's been done using WhatsApp I could name 10 great things done using the platform. No one is going to use your shitty alternative app dude.

Also it's spelled Myanmar. You can't even spell the name right of the country that you're all upset about. Were you personally affected by what happened there? I bet you just like to cherry-pick tragedies and use them to virtue signal your depressed world view on Hacker News.

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