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Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

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Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#301

Post by andrewjl »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #43
taurath wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just disagreeing and committing is the new “just following orders”

That’s a ridiculous comparison. “just following orders” is very much shorthand for following morally heinous decisions because you were asked to. In that case you disagree and quit. If you’re braver than most people you blow a whistle, etc. Just following orders is not about working arrangements in a corporation. And if you do find working arrangements morally heinous then you disagree and quit.

How would you describe the decision that kept their warehouses open and running despite dangerous heat levels?

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#302

Post by rchaud »

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #220

Amazon employees could mutiny the CEO in less than a month if they acted in unison, no unionization necessary.

So all that would be needed is 100,000 people acting toward the same goals, in concert without any formal organization?

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#303

Post by Detrytus »

tacker2000 wrote: post #275
RestlessMind wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's important to note layoffs tend to push stock prices down citation needed. Not my experience at all. Anecdotal example: META.

Yea sometimes the share prices even go up bc the market sees “efficiency”

Not "sometimes", most of the time.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#304

Post by rchaud »

notatoad wrote: post #152
DaveFr wrote: post #126

Per the NYPost article on this, > During the meeting, which is known in internal Amazon lingo as a “fishbowl” meeting, Jassy declined to share data that motivated his decision to require employees to return to the office. The CEO told his charges it was a “judgment” call. Could some brave soul please leak whatever data these guys are seeing? Reports, statistics, even just emails where they whine about empty offices?…

>The CEO told his charges it was a “judgment” call. is it really an untethered conspiracy theory when the CEO is straight-up saying his decision is based on vibes?

"judgment call" is what I'd say if I knew the data wasn't nearly as conclusive as I'd need it to be to call it a "data driven" decision.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#305

Post by Detrytus »

dangerlibrary wrote: post #227
claudiulodro wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW I imagine 95%+ of it is warehouses and fulfillment centers, not necessarily office space.

Maybe 95% by square footage - probably not by $$$.

Why would they invest in the office space for rent? It's not their core business, just a distraction. They might own their own offices, but that should be really tiny, by square footage and by $$.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#306

Post by sidewndr46 »

hot_gril wrote: post #23

Near the end of 2022, I got an offer at Amazon for a remote SWE role. The negotiations afterwards gave me the idea that eventual RTO was their goal. They said they had plenty of remote-friendly teams and started setting up manager interviews. Then one by one, they called back to say that team was either no longer hiring remotely or outright frozen. Even the ones that said they had team members all over the world. A f…

The part about "that they really only wanted me if I disliked my current job enough to leave without an upgrade" was my impression as well after interviewing with Amazon.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#307

Post by rchaud »

reducesuffering wrote: post #267
manishsharan wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fear of an collapse in commercial real estate is driving these decisions. What 4 hours of your life each day compared to the well being of the real estate moguls ? I am staying at my job (100% wfh )and foregoing other opportunities in the job market as an extra hour of playtime with my kid is worth that much to me. The minute my employer changes their mind, I will be out hunting similar WFH job

That $1T giants care more about a $10b real estate portfolio than 2% productivity of their workforce is the biggest QAnon level conspiracy that HN supports which makes no sense.

Considering that a nobody like myself has "real estate" in his portfolio, I have no doubt that people at Jassy's level have stakes in all kinds of businesses that will benefit from RTO.

Commercial RE is just one of them. They could have Airbnb/rental properties, restaurants, franchise fast food, private car services.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#308

Post by rchaud »

JackFr wrote: post #165
lapcat wrote: post #121

Jassy said the quiet part out loud and admitted what I've always suspected, that most CEOs don't have original thoughts, instead governing by groupthink: > Other company CEOs helped Jassy make up his mind too. Jassy spoke to "60 to 80 CEOs of other companies over the last 18 months," and "virtually all of them" preferred in-office work, he said. I bet that none of those individual CEOs could empirically prove that re…

And yet they are CEOs and you and I are posting comments Hacker News.

Had this CEO shared the data they claimed to have reviewed, we'd be talking about that and not empty appeals to authority.

Should Napoleon have invaded Russia? I say no, but then again nobody's making a movie about me starring Joaquin Phoenix.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#309

Post by sidewndr46 »

sokoloff wrote: post #14
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #8

I don't know the origins of the "disagree and commit" philosophy, but Jassy's use seems like a self-serving perversion of what is an attempt at dealing with decision deadlock. ... that is, disagree-and-commit transactionally seems like it ought to be between peers. Disagree-and-commit when applied between superiors and reports could be rewritten as just "shut up and follow orders."

That's exactly what it's intended to mean. Until a decision is made, feel free to express your disagreement and arguments in favor of your position. If your ideas/arguments are convincing enough (words that are doing a lot of work, I realize), then it will be chosen. Once the decision is made and communicated, you're expected to follow/implement it. Said differently: what's the practical alternative? If you don't lik…

But has it actually been communicated? In other words did Jassy email all Amazon employees globally and state that they must work from the office?

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#310

Post by rchaud »

slothtrop wrote: post #151
rdtsc wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody wants to waste time to work in a noisy, less comfortable environment. Except CEOs because they have nice comfortable offices, flexibility, assistants handling interruptions, and they don't have to spend long periods of time focusing. Looking over the heads of their minions is a tacit affirmation of their power and influence. Just like looking over an empty building full of open office desks without workers i…

I think middle-management has an instinct of self-preservation and they know that remote work could make some of them redundant. But I also think you're right that physically looming over and supervising is what some may be most interested in doing.

Middle management isn't making this call though.
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