Funny, when Firefox still does not have "add to desktop" support, while all major (and some minor, like GNOME Web) browsers are shipping it for quite a while now. And there won't be a better solution to run web applications safely, other than browser that gets regular updates.
ToDesktop – Web app to desktop app in minutes
71–80 of 87 posts
Re: ToDesktop – Web app to desktop app in minutes
#72It's been frustrating that for years Mac has had no native way to create a site-specific browser. Chrome can do it for you on Windows. On Mac there is stuff like Fluid, but for reasons I don't remember every time I try it I wind up being frustrated. Finally the Mac is getting a built-in way to create a SSB in Sonoma.
Re: ToDesktop – Web app to desktop app in minutes
#73I'll be honest: I make a concentrated effort to avoid these apps that are just a website stuffed into a (usually quite gigantic) executable for a number of reasons: - They always feel sluggish. Animations are jittery. Text input that does things (contextual search for example) jitters and jumps instead of smoothly performing it's task. - Scrolling, especially scrolling that loads content, is also often jittery and la…
> And especially given that a whole lot of these apps aren't built by scrappy underdog devs but massive firms that could extremely easily afford native developers I understand why someone would think that, but in my experience the economics for product owners aren't significantly different between scrappy underdogs and massive firms. First, most new products start as a web app. If the product is profitable (or convin…
I mean, we had software for a good long time before Electron and it's contemporaries were an option. Somehow we still had prototypes, somehow we still had companies churning out native platform-specific software because there wasn't another way to do it.
Now we certainly have more options but like, what good is more options that suck? I would personally love to have more software that is more expensive, is updated less frequently, and is made by people who use proper tooling to create and maintain it rather than an avalanche of programs that all do the same thing, badly.
The fact that slack runs worse on an M1 mac than MSN messenger did on a Core 2 Duo in 2007 in my bedroom is a travesty and everyone involved in it should be ashamed of the product they're turning out.
Re: ToDesktop – Web app to desktop app in minutes
#74It's been frustrating that for years Mac has had no native way to create a site-specific browser. Chrome can do it for you on Windows. On Mac there is stuff like Fluid, but for reasons I don't remember every time I try it I wind up being frustrated. Finally the Mac is getting a built-in way to create a SSB in Sonoma.
Orion Browser works pretty well for SSBs. But I can’t wait for native support.
Re: ToDesktop – Web app to desktop app in minutes
#75I'll be honest: I make a concentrated effort to avoid these apps that are just a website stuffed into a (usually quite gigantic) executable for a number of reasons: - They always feel sluggish. Animations are jittery. Text input that does things (contextual search for example) jitters and jumps instead of smoothly performing it's task. - Scrolling, especially scrolling that loads content, is also often jittery and la…
This is a consequence of poor desktop APIs: Windows / Mac installer APIs are awful; and Windows / Mac have no good "common denominator" API so everyone is stuck with HTML / CSS / Javascript. HTML / CSS / Javascript work great for documents, but are horrible abstractions for the kind of things UIs need to do. Personally, I think we need to figure out a better cross-platform UI API. I'm still surprised that almost 30 y…
Isn't that by design? What interest would MS/Apple have in supporting this even in the slightest? For them, a walled garden is much more valuable than people potentially jumping off (especially because a common API would make Linux much more viable for everyday use for most people)
Re: ToDesktop – Web app to desktop app in minutes
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a consequence of poor desktop APIs: Windows / Mac installer APIs are awful; and Windows / Mac have no good "common denominator" API so everyone is stuck with HTML / CSS / Javascript. HTML / CSS / Javascript work great for documents, but are horrible abstractions for the kind of things UIs need to do. Personally, I think we need to figure out a better cross-platform UI API. I'm still surprised that almost 30 y…
Isn't that by design? What interest would MS/Apple have in supporting this even in the slightest? For them, a walled garden is much more valuable than people potentially jumping off (especially because a common API would make Linux much more viable for everyday use for most people)
Microsoft / Apple didn't design HTML / Javascript / CSS. It happened organically.
Re: ToDesktop – Web app to desktop app in minutes
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sounds to me like "trial" apps skipping the signing process is a good option. A dev team can click the "Run Untrusted Program" button, and it serves as an incentive to upgrade before distributing.
Well, Conveyor can already self sign and produce a download page with instructions telling the users what to do. It's fine for internal demos and dev teams indeed. But browsers/operating systems will generate security warnings, and so that might be offputting to end users. You'd be unsure if your app was struggling due to that, or due to some product flaw. Then there's the question of how long a trial would last. It…
In my mind, a trial of the service isn't something that I'd be distributing to end users.
If I were trialing your service, it'd be to figure out how it works into my dev process and the decision to purchase would come before I'm sending executable out to anyone but my dev team.
At that point, it's locked in to an extent - I'm not going to want to tell my users "Actually, don't update the app using the automatic updater, go download a new exe instead and use the automatic updater on that one from now on." since that kind of friction can cost a lot of users.
Re: ToDesktop – Web app to desktop app in minutes
#78It looks like a well executed product, but I believe the future is to move towards running in the browser only, rather than browser wrappers for the desktop. For example, isn't just visiting a URL in your browser so much more easy and convenient than having to have an installer? Isn't it nice to use the already-installed browser rather than ship a full browser engine with the app? We put our money where our mouth is…
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. A web app having its own icon and spot in the dock/task bar makes it easier to switch to.
Safari supports this if you install a web app as a standalone app. I'm I missing something here?
Re: ToDesktop – Web app to desktop app in minutes
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, Conveyor can already self sign and produce a download page with instructions telling the users what to do. It's fine for internal demos and dev teams indeed. But browsers/operating systems will generate security warnings, and so that might be offputting to end users. You'd be unsure if your app was struggling due to that, or due to some product flaw. Then there's the question of how long a trial would last. It…
In my mind, a trial of the service isn't something that I'd be distributing to end users. If I were trialing your service, it'd be to figure out how it works into my dev process and the decision to purchase would come before I'm sending executable out to anyone but my dev team. At that point, it's locked in to an extent - I'm not going to want to tell my users "Actually, don't update the app using the automatic updat…
That sort of trial already works. ToDesktop is a service but Conveyor is a tool, so you provide your own web server in our case. If the web server you set for updates is localhost then you don't have to pay or sign up, you can just download it and use it until you're satisfied it fits.
Now, what if you want to distribute within your team? Well, then your compadres would need to run a localhost server too if they want to see updates working. But that's probably OK.
This lets you run the purchasing process in parallel with getting it set up if your company is slow to authorize payments (the tool will give you a payment link you can send to anyone).
Re: ToDesktop – Web app to desktop app in minutes
#80I'll be honest: I make a concentrated effort to avoid these apps that are just a website stuffed into a (usually quite gigantic) executable for a number of reasons: - They always feel sluggish. Animations are jittery. Text input that does things (contextual search for example) jitters and jumps instead of smoothly performing it's task. - Scrolling, especially scrolling that loads content, is also often jittery and la…
Some benefits of websites as apps - Instantly supports all operating systems and mobile devices - No need to download/install some .exe files (or your OS equivalent) with all the associated security risks - A web app will likely get updated more frequently since it's easier to develop and update I think VS Code proves that web apps can deliver
In order to use websites as a desktop app, i would think you need to download a binary and run it. Otherwise it's just a normal web app?