New study finds microplastics infiltrate all systems of body, alter behaviour • Hacker News Board

Re: New study finds microplastics infiltrate all systems of body, alter behaviour

#201

Post by zo1 » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

psychoslave wrote: post #56

soco wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have for the PET bottles, yes, but there are still thousands of other packaging types which just get dumped in garbage with unknown destinations. I cannot really imagine a deposit on those (do you want stinky meat packages returned to the shop?) but still we need to find a solution.

Bottle in glass, aluminum or paper. Beers, various soda and juice already use that

Don't cans have a plastic lining on the inside so that the liquid doesn't touch the metal? Same goes for paper from what another commenter said about paper straws.

Heck I wouldn't trust paper food packaging because I'm not sure they would use a wax liner instead of some fancy PFAS forever chemical.

Re: New study finds microplastics infiltrate all systems of body, alter behaviour

#202

Post by larperdoodle » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:29 PM UTC

nonethewiser wrote: post #29

NotGMan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy a water distiller. I've heard that the destillation coil must be from copper. The issue is that all commercial ones have steel, which can possible leach into the distilled water + it's not antibacterial.

But how do I know I need one if I dont test? Do I even have a microplastics problem? The best case scenario is I test and see there is none and I don't have to worry about it. But if there is a concerning amount and I took steps to remediate I would want to test afterwards to ensure its working. I'm not just looking for peace of mind, I want to know if I have microplastics and how much.

Microplastics are, quite literally, everywhere. Are you on Earth? Congrats, you are eating, breathing, and drinking microplastics.

They've been leeching into the environment for so long that you are no longer just concerned about primary sources contaminating your air, food, and water.

It's homogenized, from the deepest parts of the ocean to the tops of the highest mountains, there are microplastics. It's completely penetrated the food cycle.

If you want to avoid drinking microplastics, you'll have to explicitly remove it from your water.

If you want to avoid eating microplastics... I guess grow your own food in a hermetically sealed bubble and water it with your filtered water.

Re: New study finds microplastics infiltrate all systems of body, alter behaviour

#203

Post by bhouston » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:30 PM UTC

lumost wrote: post #196

rthomas6 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the metabolic syndrome/obesity epidemic. 40% of US adults have obesity. By 2030 about half of US adults will, and in 29 states more than half of adults will be obese. We see obesity becoming increasingly normalized. People feel powerless to stop it and that we should just accept it. It feels to me like there is something besides diet changes happening to us. That's part of it, but I wonder if microplastics or so…

Big thing you would expect if it’s due to general plastic/pollution prevalence is obesity in pets/wild animals.

here is a study on the negative effects on aquatic life:

"In aquatic invertebrates, microplastics cause a decline in feeding behavior and fertility, slow down larval growth and development, increase oxygen consumption, and stimulate the production of reactive oxygen species. In fish, the microplastics may cause structural damage to the intestine, liver, gills, and brain, while affecting metabolic balance, behavior, and fertility; the degree of these harmful effects depends on the particle sizes and doses, as well as the exposure parameters"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9205308/

Re: New study finds microplastics infiltrate all systems of body, alter behaviour

#204

Post by mc32 » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:30 PM UTC

rthomas6 wrote: post #131

bhouston wrote: post #75

There are two macro population health trends that suggest we are somehow poisoning ourselves at a large scale. Most people do not relate the two, but I personally wouldn't be surprised if they have related causes. The first is the Flynn effect, which was rising IQ levels decade over decade, which halted and then reserved for most Western nations around 1990s/2000s and is now declining: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F…

Also the metabolic syndrome/obesity epidemic. 40% of US adults have obesity. By 2030 about half of US adults will, and in 29 states more than half of adults will be obese. We see obesity becoming increasingly normalized. People feel powerless to stop it and that we should just accept it. It feels to me like there is something besides diet changes happening to us. That's part of it, but I wonder if microplastics or so…

This the one area the administration should go after instead of alcohol or whatever else they think they’re doing. By addressing obesity, making it uncool, taxing the living daylights out of sugary additives, etc they would save more lives than the lives combined in all their other feel-good, virtue signaling efforts[1]they sound nice and all but in thd end this effort would actually save a many more lives.

[1]gas stoves and ranges, overhead fans, etc. and of course when they released a trial balloon they accused people of conspiracy theory thinking -but here we are. Meanwhile sweeteners and fillers are everywhere.

Re: New study finds microplastics infiltrate all systems of body, alter behaviour

#205

Post by DrThunder » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

bamboozled wrote: post #98

safety1st wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My $0.02: no. A) The research is still very much in its infancy. We don't know how big of a deal microplastics are to human health yet. In a couple years we'll have a better idea. B) There's not much you can do about them. This is compounded by A). Maybe certain types, sizes, forms of exposure etc. are more significant? We don't know any of this yet. C) You have a limited capacity for anxiety without going crazy, all…

You already kind of know that it would be better if our bodies weren't infiltrated with microplastics though don't you?

Yes, so offer an alternative.

How will you keep everyone from dying from food-borne illnesses? What about all the items we manufacture that REQUIRE plastics?

We're not using them just because it's fun and we like loading people with plastic bits.

It would be better if disease magically didn't exist too but that's a useless thing to say.

Re: New study finds microplastics infiltrate all systems of body, alter behaviour

#206

Post by screye » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

bhouston wrote: post #75

There are two macro population health trends that suggest we are somehow poisoning ourselves at a large scale. Most people do not relate the two, but I personally wouldn't be surprised if they have related causes. The first is the Flynn effect, which was rising IQ levels decade over decade, which halted and then reserved for most Western nations around 1990s/2000s and is now declining: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F…

Is there no existing population that has been minimally affected by these 2 factors ?

A controlled study is impossible to do, but the correlations and trend lines should show up when comparing across different population wide exposures to PFAs and microplastics.

That's another reason I think it is important to keep granular data of localized IQ, fertility, and trends in reproductive choice. People are worried about what it will reveal. We should instead be worried about what we're missing.

Re: New study finds microplastics infiltrate all systems of body, alter behaviour

#207

Post by myshpa » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

smallerfish wrote: post #149

myshpa wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is this really claiming that plastic starts to fall apart from the get-go Yes. Microplastics are everywhere. Everywhere on the planet we look, we find microplastics. Just ... everywhere. Beekeepers are using plastic worker brood foundations, for example. Honey is often stored in plastic buckets and bottles, somewhere in the production process/transport. And it's not just the honey. https://www.theguardian.com/envir…

> Microplastics are everywhere. Everywhere on the planet we look, we find microplastics. Just ... everywhere. I appreciate the links, but that's not what I asked. I know microplastics are everywhere. Do you have studies showing that plastic begins to distintegrate immediately? What's the working lifetime for a plastic container before it begins to distintegrate and leach microplastics into what's stored in it?

> Do you have studies showing that plastic begins to distintegrate immediately

It's an area of active research, so ... I don't. If you find something, let me know.

https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2022/04/nist-study-sho...

NIST Study Shows Everyday Plastic Products Release Trillions of Microscopic Particles Into Water

... when plastic products were exposed to hot water, they released trillions of nanoparticles per liter into the water ...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37343248/

Assessing the Release of Microplastics and Nanoplastics from Plastic Containers and Reusable Food Pouches: Implications for Human Health

... microwave heating caused the highest release of microplastics and nanoplastics into food compared to other usage scenarios such as refrigeration or room-temperature storage. Some containers could release as many as 4.22 million microplastic and 2.11 billion nanoplastic particles from only one square centimeter of plastic area within 3 min of microwave heating.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s43016-020-00171-y

Microplastic release from the degradation of polypropylene feeding bottles during infant formula preparation

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/15/micropla...

WHO launches health review after microplastics found in 90% of bottled water

Researchers find levels of plastic fibres in popular bottled water brands could be twice as high as those found in tap water

Re: New study finds microplastics infiltrate all systems of body, alter behaviour

#208

Post by bhouston » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

oarfish wrote: post #185

rthomas6 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the metabolic syndrome/obesity epidemic. 40% of US adults have obesity. By 2030 about half of US adults will, and in 29 states more than half of adults will be obese. We see obesity becoming increasingly normalized. People feel powerless to stop it and that we should just accept it. It feels to me like there is something besides diet changes happening to us. That's part of it, but I wonder if microplastics or so…

> It feels to me like there is something besides diet changes happening to us. Well sure, obesity is a result of a lot of factors, some genetic, but a lot of it is the food environment surrounding people. The lack of easy access to healthy foods or education on how to buy and prepare them, plus economic pressures all play into this.

> a lot of it is the food environment surrounding people

Yup. It is hard to pull all the factors apart because they contribute to each other. If you are obese, I understand it screws up your hormones which makes it easier to stay obese. Also if you have exposure to chemicals which cause you to have a tendency towards being obese you are more likely to seek out a bad food environment - e.g. crave McDonald's fries, etc.

So you sort of just need to work on each factor and over time, it will change. For many, we already have significantly accumulations of forever chemicals or microplastics so it may take a generation to truly fix.

Re: New study finds microplastics infiltrate all systems of body, alter behaviour

#209

Post by bjowen » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

jokoon wrote: post #74

njovin wrote: post #22

I'm still shocked that there hasn't been more of a regulatory push to eliminate single-use plastics. In the US the closest we've gotten is banning plastic straws and charging for plastic carry bags. Everything I've read about plastic recycling points to it being ineffective and requiring massive amounts of fossil fuel to move the waste around the globe, often with much of it just getting burned or dumped into the env…

The problem of replacing plastic in food is the cost. If you use glass or steel or aluminum, you need new logistics to reuse them. Also, glass is heavier, and requires a lot of energy to be made, so it would require a production chain that ships back empty containers. The best silver bullet solution would be to have local canteen, a bit like in the army or at school, where you just get a subscription with a calendar…

Without resorting to abolishing the family kitchen altogether (many years of church morning teas give me the heebie jeebies about foodborne illnesses around community food prep) - there are ways to avoid some plastic packaging. Depending where you are, wholefoods places probably exist and will happily sell you a scoop (metal) of the ingredient you need in a pickle jar (glass). Also a good way to avoid storing bulk amounts of rarely-used ingredients, saves some waste.

Re: New study finds microplastics infiltrate all systems of body, alter behaviour

#210

Post by aziaziazi » Tue, Aug 29, 2023, 1:32 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #180

rthomas6 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the metabolic syndrome/obesity epidemic. 40% of US adults have obesity. By 2030 about half of US adults will, and in 29 states more than half of adults will be obese. We see obesity becoming increasingly normalized. People feel powerless to stop it and that we should just accept it. It feels to me like there is something besides diet changes happening to us. That's part of it, but I wonder if microplastics or so…

> It feels to me like there is something besides diet changes happening to us. That's part of it, but I wonder if microplastics or some kind of gut biome disruption is playing a role as well. Based on what many people have in their shopping carts and the sugar water many people are constantly chugging, I see no reason to think anything other than excess calories is the cause. And lack of exercise as an exacerbating f…

Maybe fat as well ? Not the one in walnuts and linen seeds but the pork, diaries and coconut. Not an expert at all, just wondering in what extend we should avoid them comparing to sugar.