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Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

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Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#281

Post by MrJohz »

hot_gril wrote: post #236
TylerE wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a great way to turn a business into even more of a hyper-politicized environment than it already is. It becomes not about what you can do, but who you make like you.

Yeah, or it works ok at a small scale but you can never expand, and a competitor (maybe your own ex-employees) eats your lunch like what happened to Cheeseboard. Which is still ok, you can be in that cool little niche if that's what you like, but don't tell me it's a better model overall.

Except worker cooperatives are noted for being particularly resilient against closures - Wikipedia links to a number of studies and analyses here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative#Research_on...

For example there's a British study that shows that 76% of worker cooperatives tend to survive the first five years, compared to 42% of all companies overall, making them particularly stable businesses.

You've also got typically higher job satisfaction from the employees (so less likely to have the ex-employees to create competitors out of), and more productive employees overall.

Honestly that sounds like a pretty good model for businesses overall to me.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#282

Post by kyle_grove »

wcerfgba wrote: post #4

Wonderful story, thanks for sharing. Do you know any worker-owned food businesses? Share in the comments! In Preston, UK, we have The Larder. Not sure about the ownership model but it is a social enterprise working on food justice: https://larder.org.uk/

In Athens, Ohio, there's Casa Nueva, a worker's cooperative Mexican cantina: https://casanueva.com/about-us/our-story/

In Ithaca, NY and its surrounds, Gimme! Coffee recently became a worker-owned enterprise: https://ithacavoice.org/2022/07/a-labor-of-love-gimme-coffee...

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#283

Post by randomdata »

asdff wrote: post #222

This model really should be expanded to just about everything. Revenue per employee ratio at Apple is $2.4 million a person or so. If that company were to shift from the present shareholder model to a cooperative model, its not hard to imagine labor seeing some substantial gains. Having more money in the part of the economy that actually circulates more of their income would probably bring on wider economic benefits…

> Revenue per employee ratio at Apple is $2.4 million a person or so.

Seems net income per employee is only ~$120,000, though. The way you put it might leave people thinking they have $2.4 million to give to each employee, when in reality they have bills to pay.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#285

Post by declan_roberts »

bobthepanda wrote: post #203

Side note: we can trace the dictatorship style of cooking to August Escoffier, who introduced the brigade de cuisine to French cooking and is credited with popularizing French cooking at the Ritz-Carlton. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auguste_Escoffier

I would trace it back much further than that.

Restaurants are often started as a family business with a “boss” who simply continues to be a boss even as more employees come on board.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#286

Post by declan_roberts »

asdff wrote: post #222

This model really should be expanded to just about everything. Revenue per employee ratio at Apple is $2.4 million a person or so. If that company were to shift from the present shareholder model to a cooperative model, its not hard to imagine labor seeing some substantial gains. Having more money in the part of the economy that actually circulates more of their income would probably bring on wider economic benefits…

Don’t many apple employees get stock grants

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#287

Post by MrJohz »

jimmygrapes wrote: post #274
popinman322 wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone is different and has different motivations. We don't all think the same way, either. Some workers just want a stable, sane work environment and are willing to compromise on pay for other benefits. These same people are typically willing to let others do more work for more pay because it makes their own lives easier. One possible approach: you could do an exercise where everyone gets $N imaginary dollars and…

> Everyone is different and has different motivations. We don't all think the same way, either. Spot on! Unfortunately this is also why "everyone is equal" rarely works

But nobody is saying that everyone has to be equal. Coops have measurable pay ratios just like everyone else, they just tend not to be as large as non-coops. More important (or harder to find) roles will obviously get paid more.

At the end of the day, most people want to get paid, and to get paid, at least in the long term, you need a viable business. So workers tend to make choices that ensure the business is able to survive, because that is more valuable in the long run than lining their own pockets right now and not having a job to go to tomorrow.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#288

Post by chii »

sudosysgen wrote: post #267
Aunche wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At most places I've been involved in the workers are more careful with money because they are standing together and want the business to succeed. This doesn't contradict anything GP said. Worker owners are careful with company money because they have to be, due to being invested into it. That's a responsibility that not everyone wants, especially when an organization approaches the scale of tragedy of the commons.…

Worker co-ops aren't less likely to expand because of risk, it's because more employees diluted the pie, so they don't have an incentive to grow for the sake of growth, but only if there are significant economies of scale or social need.

> more employees diluted the pie

why should this new employee automatically dilute the pie before their "worth" is made real (by virtue of working and contributing to the bottom line)?

if adding this new employee creates more value, the existing owners shouldn't have a problem with adding. Of course, unless the employee start owning their share before being first able to be vetted.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#289

Post by hot_gril »

MrJohz wrote: post #281
hot_gril wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, or it works ok at a small scale but you can never expand, and a competitor (maybe your own ex-employees) eats your lunch like what happened to Cheeseboard. Which is still ok, you can be in that cool little niche if that's what you like, but don't tell me it's a better model overall.

Except worker cooperatives are noted for being particularly resilient against closures - Wikipedia links to a number of studies and analyses here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative#Research_on... For example there's a British study that shows that 76% of worker cooperatives tend to survive the first five years, compared to 42% of all companies overall, making them particularly stable businesses. You've…

Because of the big leap involved in "worker owned cooperatives that have been created by workers buying a business." Either the workers are unusually wealthy and dedicated or a rich owner is doing a bit of charity, in both cases their odds are way better with a corp too. If you're starting with nothing, it'll be difficult to find investment for a co-op.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#290

Post by cjbgkagh »

MrJohz wrote: post #281
hot_gril wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, or it works ok at a small scale but you can never expand, and a competitor (maybe your own ex-employees) eats your lunch like what happened to Cheeseboard. Which is still ok, you can be in that cool little niche if that's what you like, but don't tell me it's a better model overall.

Except worker cooperatives are noted for being particularly resilient against closures - Wikipedia links to a number of studies and analyses here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worker_cooperative#Research_on... For example there's a British study that shows that 76% of worker cooperatives tend to survive the first five years, compared to 42% of all companies overall, making them particularly stable businesses. You've…

I do wonder about selection criteria biases, it's not like both types of business were started with the same set of circumstances. I.e. if you flipped a coin on a non-cooperative and if heads made it a cooperative would it's probability of success increase or decrease.
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