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Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

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Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#21
post #4

Usual dumb management BAU. Worker in the cubicle is the limit of their imagination.

Jazzy is a pretty sharp guy, and corporate managers are aware of the 1st order effects of this mandate... I wouldn't be surprised though if they are caught off guard by how this plays out - its always the top talent at a company that have the most options.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#22

I don't know the origins of the "disagree and commit" philosophy, but Jassy's use seems like a self-serving perversion of what is an attempt at dealing with decision deadlock. ... that is, disagree-and-commit transactionally seems like it ought to be between peers. Disagree-and-commit when applied between superiors and reports could be rewritten as just "shut up and follow orders."

“Disagree and commit” only applies to the side on the lower side of the power dynamics.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#23
Near the end of 2022, I got an offer at Amazon for a remote SWE role. The negotiations afterwards gave me the idea that eventual RTO was their goal.

They said they had plenty of remote-friendly teams and started setting up manager interviews. Then one by one, they called back to say that team was either no longer hiring remotely or outright frozen. Even the ones that said they had team members all over the world. A few times they asked me to consider relocating, I declined. Eventually I did get a revised offer for a remote team, but it was less than my current comp. They revised upwards each time I declined or outright said goodbye. The last (and best) offer I got before they stopped calling was roughly my existing comp and level at the time, while being remote like my existing job. It wasn't worth switching for the same thing.

So clearly wanting remote was a negative bargaining chip even though my current job is/was remote. Long story short, I also determined that they really only wanted me if I disliked my current job enough to leave without an upgrade, as others had done in my shoes. Nothing personal in the end, just observing their moves.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#24

I don't know the origins of the "disagree and commit" philosophy, but Jassy's use seems like a self-serving perversion of what is an attempt at dealing with decision deadlock. ... that is, disagree-and-commit transactionally seems like it ought to be between peers. Disagree-and-commit when applied between superiors and reports could be rewritten as just "shut up and follow orders."

That's exactly what it's intended to mean. Until a decision is made, feel free to express your disagreement and arguments in favor of your position. If your ideas/arguments are convincing enough (words that are doing a lot of work, I realize), then it will be chosen. Once the decision is made and communicated, you're expected to follow/implement it. Said differently: what's the practical alternative? If you don't lik…

Why would you persist in disagreeing with an idea if you did not see real world consequences for the wrong solution in your future?

If you're dealing with obstructionist people, surely there are other ways to detect and address it than 'disagree and commit'.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#25
Hilarious to me Oracle has no issue with remote work while Apple, Amazon, Google, all flip out

Deals they cut, whether it’s leases or tax breaks, are not my responsibility.

Aside from Apple, the only thing the anti-remote places have is brand recognition. The knowledge they possess is worker knowledge. They’re having a hard time justifying valuations since their real social value is corralling workers who are then too busy to storm DC, and those workers seem keen to corral themselves.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#27

I don't know the origins of the "disagree and commit" philosophy, but Jassy's use seems like a self-serving perversion of what is an attempt at dealing with decision deadlock. ... that is, disagree-and-commit transactionally seems like it ought to be between peers. Disagree-and-commit when applied between superiors and reports could be rewritten as just "shut up and follow orders."

Most commonly attributed to Andy Grove at Intel although also Scott McNealy at Sun.

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#28

I don't know the origins of the "disagree and commit" philosophy, but Jassy's use seems like a self-serving perversion of what is an attempt at dealing with decision deadlock. ... that is, disagree-and-commit transactionally seems like it ought to be between peers. Disagree-and-commit when applied between superiors and reports could be rewritten as just "shut up and follow orders."

> ”Disagree-and-commit when applied between superiors and reports could be rewritten as just ‘shut up and follow orders.’”

The CEO isn’t just any superior, they are the highest superior.

So literally everything coming from the CEO is “do X and follow orders”

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#29
Isn’t there anyone that can steelman the WFH situation?

Twitter, Amazon, Zoom, others are all ending or limiting their WFH programs.

Doesn’t that tell anyone that there MIGHT be facts or at least good research on this that it isn’t producing good work for the money?

I get that “corporations are bad maaaan” and all the good people are dreamy socialists… but what if you are wrong and it isn’t more effective?

Re: Amazon CEO reportedly told remote employees: It’s probably not going to work out

#30
post #5

> Jassy reportedly said his decision to have employees return to the office was a “judgment call” and that employees can leave if they don’t want to comply. Amazon is having trouble scouting warehouse labor. Looks like they're trying to add skilled labor to the set of problems.

I think it already is. Their culture issues have made attracting fresh talent hard more expensive. I think this direction will haunt them, especially as they find themselves in 4th place at best in AI spend, which is likely the biggest incremental IT budget driver in this decade. It’s the wrong time to scare off good talent with bad edicts.

You would have to at least double my salary for me to consider working at Amazon.

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