Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can't agree more. The wet bulb event chapter is definitely worth a read, though. The sad reality is that the world's actual response to something like that happening will probably be about as disappointing and anticlimactic as the rest of the book was to read.
If the comment sections on any news story about e.g. the Maui fire or any other natural disaster are an indication - the world's response will be hyperpartisan conspiracy mongering involving random rich people (Oprah, Zuckerberg and Obama in Maui), shady groups of profiteers (developers and clean energy installers), and fictional tech (directed energy weapons and various "lasers) rather than the shortest moment of in…
Wet-bulb temperature
151–160 of 183 posts
Re: Wet-bulb temperature
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fill a bath and get in it. The groundwater is usually much colder than the air. However there is a limit to how long you can live in the bath.
And how many bath tubs there are per-capita. Many newer homes are built with only showers. You also have to worry about power when it comes to having access to sufficient water to cool a person in the first place.
There's no need for the bath. The shower will probably work better actually since it's constantly disposed down the drain after picking up some heat, and replenished with subterranean-temp fresh water running across your person.
Re: Wet-bulb temperature
#153Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, can we all be sure that electricity will be available during such an event?
Heat waves are dangerous. My point is that wet bulb events are not a magical inflection point. The point to take away is that humidity matters in addition to raw temperatures. Not that there is a specific threshold at which things matter or didn’t matter.
If this imaginary graph has an inflection point, I can't think of a better one.
Re: Wet-bulb temperature
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
> we need fiction that confronts the climate crisis and shows people taking positive action to change the world for the better. Like Termination Shock? https://www.amazon.com/Termination-Shock-Novel-Neal-Stephens...
I really prefer Ministry to termination shock. I mean, it's a fun book, but it offers no solution (eg sulphur seeding does nothing for ocean acidification, not to mention termination shock). The fact that people read it and thing it offers a solution is puzzling. Now Anathem is another matter! Brilliant! (although again I have quibbles).
Re: Wet-bulb temperature
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Anyone who is in the affected area during such an event would only survive if they had air conditioning and uninterrupted power. Could you survive in a basement?
Or in a river ?
Keep in mind that we're now seeing sea surface temperatures above 38°C (100°F).
If the river itself is slow-moving and is in an area of prolonged heat, it will also be warm.
The areas most prone to high temperatures often also have little surface water, or at least, not enough to shelter all persons affected.
Water refuges being too warm for human survival is an early plot point in Kim Stanley Robinson's Ministry for the Future.
Re: Wet-bulb temperature
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you are saying a small amount of water would be enough to cool you down when it is (for example) 35° C at 90% humidity? How would that work? Evaporative cooling is out, for the most part and a small amount of water would be heated up to 35° C in no time.
You just put your feet in the water and transfer heat to the water. It would not heat up to 35 in no time.
That's maybe 2 hours of cooling per person and it's not at all obvious that during such a heat event that you'll have access to a continued source of 70°F/21°C water. If you only have access to 82°F/28°C water, 5 gallons only lasts you an hour or less.
Re: Wet-bulb temperature
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
I stopped reading it because the premise is entirely unbelievable. A mass casualty event of pretty much any size would not lead us to do anything about climate change. For evidence, look at the deaths in the USA from gives and cars every year . Yet there is zero momentum toward doing anything about those from a policy standpoint.
Or the million+ deaths in the US from Covid, which I have seen brushed off on HN as not a big deal. It's remarkably how quickly people incorporate tragedy as normal when it doesn't fit their worldview. If you travel to 2000 and told people "in 2020 a pandemic will kill over 1 million Americans, and a good portion will brush it off as a 'nothing burger'" people would think you were being ridiculous and would dismiss i…
A million people die a week, worldwide, from all causes.
Re: Wet-bulb temperature
#158If you haven’t read it yet, the first section of Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson describes a wet-bulb event in striking detail. The horror of this climate-change catastrophe is what finally triggers a significant global cultural shift around climate change. The passage was vivid enough for me to suggest preparatory measures to my retired parents. I wholeheartedly recommend the book to anyone intereste…
I stopped reading it because the premise is entirely unbelievable. A mass casualty event of pretty much any size would not lead us to do anything about climate change. For evidence, look at the deaths in the USA from gives and cars every year . Yet there is zero momentum toward doing anything about those from a policy standpoint.
What is the benefit of vehicle transportation? Immense! They move goods around the country, provide people with rapid transportation, improve the movement of people of people around the country, etc, etc.
It's like looking at surgical deaths and saying "look at the death toll from surgery! such a tragedy!" all the while completely ignoring it's benefits.
Re: Wet-bulb temperature
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that the plot repeatedly follows society making choices which I find implausible -- but if one reads that alienation (one's inner critic saying "this is not the world we live in") as part of the experience of the work, then it can function as a kind of compelling tool. Noting all the points where humanity in the book takes necessary and beneficial actions to improve their situation, that are available to but…
The ways in which we fail to address societal issues are not in fact our responsibility, they're a systemic issue that is a function of human nature - or political nature/societal nature - that will not be solved by morose feelings of condemnation. "Why can't people not be the way they are" is just as useless a sentiment as "Why can't mathematics not be the way it is", and will be just as ineffective at causing 2 and…
> The ways in which we fail to address societal issues are not in fact our responsibility, they're a systemic issue that is a function of human nature ... - that will not be solved by morose feelings of condemnation.
Are we not society? Do we not make up the system? But more importantly, you're refuting a statement of responsibility by saying the underlying problem won't be solved by feelings. Whether a statement of moral responsibility is _true_ and whether concurrent emotions on their own solve anything are fundamentally different propositions, and denying one implies nothing about the other. If I murder someone by stabbing them, perhaps that reflects part of human nature -- but a jury telling me I'm guilty is _correct_, even though their condemnation will not bring back my victim. It would be absurd for me to say "oh your moralizing emotional condemnation won't solve the issue of murder which has always existed in human societies, and certainly won't bring back the person I killed -- therefore I'm not responsible."
But somehow, if a few generations knowingly trash a whole planet, aware that this would cause chaos which results in a large number of deaths, illness, property damage, etc you want to believe that the fact that morose feeling will not suck carbon out of the atmosphere somehow implies that responsibility cannot be assigned.
One can argue about whether moral statements can meaningfully be "true" (I think they can), but one can't jump from "moral condemnation doesn't on its own solve problems" to "therefore moral responsibility can be denied in any instance".
If anything, I think the reluctance to fully face the problem and acknowledge our role in it, and to recognize the ways in which our own lives will need to be different to stop exacerbating the problem, is part of the foot-dragging.
> The whole thing reminds me of this thread [1] from a few weeks ago referencing Orwell's critique of Dickens:
>>> The truth is that Dickens's criticism of society is almost exclusively moral. Hence the utter lack of any constructive suggestion anywhere in his work.
But The Ministry for the Future is basically nothing _but_ constructive suggestions put in a nice palatable narrative container. We're not talking about a moral judgement in the absence of specific ideas about how to address climate change, environmental justice, and even wealth inequality. We're talking about acknowledging responsibility when, though opportunities stare us in the face, we do little or nothing to fix the situation we've created.
Re: Wet-bulb temperature
#160If you haven’t read it yet, the first section of Ministry for the Future by Kim Stanley Robinson describes a wet-bulb event in striking detail. The horror of this climate-change catastrophe is what finally triggers a significant global cultural shift around climate change. The passage was vivid enough for me to suggest preparatory measures to my retired parents. I wholeheartedly recommend the book to anyone intereste…
I hate speaking negatively about Ministry for the Future, because I admire KSR, and we need fiction that confronts the climate crisis and shows people taking positive action to change the world for the better. Still, I sadly cannot recommend this book. To quote from my spoileriffic review, "This does not help us imagine realistic positive outcomes to the climate crisis. Robinson correctly diagnoses the threats we fac…