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Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

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Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#171

Post by Swenrekcah »

version_five wrote: post #125
Swenrekcah wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I agree with the point but people don’t need to want all the same things so I think I’d rather phrase it this way: “Democracy fails when the people and their leaders fail to realise that the thing they want above all is peace and general prosperity, and that neither of those is a naturally occurring phenomenon.” Because the peaceful transfer of power as well as respect for the truth, and equality before the l…

Doesn't that just kick the problem down the road to the definition of peace and general prosperity? If people have irreconcilable differences over what those mean, they still may not be able to find the common ground needed for running a business or country. With something more nimble like a business it's easy to imagine vastly different views on how the business can prosper, which makes the benevolent dictator (busi…

Well, I don't think people around the world have vastly different definitions of peace and prosperity. For example, Ukraine is definitely not experiencing that at this stage in time. Neither is Sudan, Ecuador, etc.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#172

Post by [deleted] »

disjunct wrote: post #111
xwdv wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a hellish concept. The workers relationship to the company becomes less transactional, and they get all the stress of owning a business but without the outsized profits.

Have you worked at a worker-owned company? I think, largely, a goal of worker-owned restaurants is to make the work experience less transactional. Is there anything besides stress (which is not mentioned in the article) that would make transactionality and outsized profit a necessary thing?

[deleted]

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#173

Post by [deleted] »

disjunct wrote: post #111
xwdv wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a hellish concept. The workers relationship to the company becomes less transactional, and they get all the stress of owning a business but without the outsized profits.

Have you worked at a worker-owned company? I think, largely, a goal of worker-owned restaurants is to make the work experience less transactional. Is there anything besides stress (which is not mentioned in the article) that would make transactionality and outsized profit a necessary thing?

[deleted]

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#174

Post by cmh89 »

cat_plus_plus wrote: post #169

It can, but it will have problem scaling - If the business grows and starts needing management skills beyond what a cook or a waiter would have, you will have trouble hiring a qualified manager for same wages you pay to waiters - If you need a loan to expand, lender is likely to want some control over how a restaurant is run rather than leaving it up to workers If you are content to stay at a small scale where these…

>- If the business grows and starts needing management skills beyond what a cook or a waiter would have, you will have trouble hiring a qualified manager for same wages you pay to waiters

Waiters generally make more than managers in restaurants in the United States at least.

>If you need a loan to expand, lender is likely to want some control over how a restaurant is run rather than leaving it up to workers

Co-ops get loans all the time. You just need a governance structure of some sort and collateral for a loan.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#175

Post by expazl »

exabrial wrote: post #88

Yes, absolutely, but there are pitfalls: * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay * Consumers despite "Least common denominator" which is often the result of "design by committee". Usually consumers are after something niche, unique, artistic, and creative, which is the inspiration…

> Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay

There are restaurants that charge north of 800$ per person which are always fully booked half a year in advance with glowing reviews even from the worst critics hellbent on being negative.

You certainly can pay workers $250 an hour without raising prices above what customers are willing to pay depending on the product. Of cause that's not the case at those restaurants, the workers make closer to $30 bucks an hour and the money goes to the owner/investors. Imagining a restaurant with that kind of success where the owners and investors are the workers is a nice thought.

I know of one of these restaurants that always top the list of best restaurant in the world basically gave their main dish washing guy a small owning stake because the owner/chefs like him, and he's now making way more than just $250 an hour washing the dishes. But that is of cause just a case of the rich throwing leftover bones to the dogs eating scraps at the table for shits and giggles, not a case where workers owning a restaurant leads to a fair distribution of the profits for all of them.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#176

Post by [deleted] »

Affric wrote: post #132
toyg wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long run, that is bound to generate a separate managerial class, with all that it entails. It's how most cooperatives eventually die: they turn into regular businesses.

Well said. Good co-ops that last have the decisions made by those working there. And it's a lot of work.

[deleted]

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#177

Post by dukeyukey »

astrange wrote: post #49
wcerfgba wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, in UK we have a network of tech workers co-ops: https://www.coops.tech/about

This is a bad sign. The UK is like Argentina - if they've adopted an economic idea that means it doesn't work and you need to run away from it. https://twitter.com/JosephPolitano/status/169124217640185446...

Can't read that tweet cosTwitter is crapping out with GraphQL errors, but co-ops are an old and successful model of business ownership. They've lasted centuries. Co-ops run successful banks, manufacturers, industrial farms and food processing. And yes, restaurants and cafes.

But even if you want to wipe away all of that, they aren't exactly facing a resurgence in the UK.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#178

Post by tech_ken »

ajkjk wrote: post #115
tech_ken wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't any landlord who defects from colluding stand to gain though? Like how Georgists argue that their land tax won't get passed directly on to renters because if it's applied to the whole market at once then absent perfect and universal collusion on behalf of the landlords renters will arb out those with the highest rent spikes.

Not if they wait to raise the rent until after they have a tenant who has a large cost to move already.

Don't most leases prohibit rent hikes for some period of time though?

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#179

Post by detourdog »

dragonwriter wrote: post #139
reducesuffering wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very reasonable prices are $40 + 8% coop fee for a standard large pizza? That's almost $50 after tax. https://asliceofny.com/sunnyvale/menu/

A “standard large pizza” is 14", the size of their small ; 16" is a common extra-large size, their large is 18” (1.65× the size of a “standard large pizza”, by area.) $43.20 ($40+8%) is quite reasonable for an 18" multiple topping pizza.

Patsy's on 119th in NYC large and small pizzas were the same size but the number of slices was greater in a large pizza.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#180

Post by theogravity »

reducesuffering wrote: post #152
dragonwriter wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A “standard large pizza” is 14", the size of their small ; 16" is a common extra-large size, their large is 18” (1.65× the size of a “standard large pizza”, by area.) $43.20 ($40+8%) is quite reasonable for an 18" multiple topping pizza.

Thanks for helping remind me of the Bay Area / tech wealth bubble. Meanwhile the first pizza place I find with good reviews elsewhere in the country has a 18" multi topping for $25, and two 16" for $37.

Yeah, that is pretty steep.

Bibo's NY Pizza in San Jose has $23 for a 20" (XL) with no toppings.

https://www.bibosnypizzamenu.com/?product_id=6167820

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