Can a worker-owned restaurant work? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#131

Post by avgcorrection » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 10:32 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #88

Yes, absolutely, but there are pitfalls: * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay * Consumers despite "Least common denominator" which is often the result of "design by committee". Usually consumers are after something niche, unique, artistic, and creative, which is the inspiration…

> Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay

Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some owners. Ex: Hey we can't have collective payout to investors totaling $10M this year without raises prices to above what customers are wiling to pay.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#132

Post by Affric » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

toyg wrote: post #127

saled wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These points are solved by the workers electing an executive or directors who makes those decisions, until the workers are sick of them and replace them in an AGM or an emergency meeting. Works the same as shareholders.

In the long run, that is bound to generate a separate managerial class, with all that it entails. It's how most cooperatives eventually die: they turn into regular businesses.

Well said.

Good co-ops that last have the decisions made by those working there.

And it's a lot of work.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#133

Post by realjhol » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 10:33 PM UTC

willyt wrote: post #116

There’s a whole chain of department stores and supermarkets in the UK that’s ‘worker owned’ John Lewis which also operates Waitrose supermarkets. It’s a partnership, everyone that works there becomes a partner in the firm after a probation period. It’s a successful business; there’s a John Lewis in every big city in Britain and Waitrose is in many large towns and cities.

[dead]

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#134

Post by ska » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 10:34 PM UTC

exabrial wrote: post #88

Yes, absolutely, but there are pitfalls: * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay * Consumers despite "Least common denominator" which is often the result of "design by committee". Usually consumers are after something niche, unique, artistic, and creative, which is the inspiration…

> unless a majority of the workers have a lot experience with business,

That may be the wrong way to think about it. Vanishingly few people have enough experience in all aspects of any business to make good decisions without others inputs. So in many cases we are reliant on someone's domain expertise, not to make the decisions, but to get the the right decision point. Once the pros and cons are laid out properly, anyone with a real stake can contribute to the decision.

The bigger the decision, the more people with a stake need to be involved. In the typical business world this shows up all the time: "that's a board-level decision", "we need all the execs to agree on this one", etc.

We don't know the actual implementation, but it's possibly it's just a reasonable reflection of that practice into collective ownership...

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#135

Post by avgcorrection » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 10:35 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #85

sharts wrote: post #80

Worker-owned anything can work. It's democracy in the workplace.

Democracy only works when just about everyone wants the same thing. And even then leaders generally abuse power. The lower the stakes, the worse it gets.

Oligarchy only works because only what the 10%, 1% (or whatever the cutoff) wants matters so what everyone else wants is per definition irrelevant.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#136

Post by spacebanana7 » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 10:37 PM UTC

avgcorrection wrote: post #131

exabrial wrote: post #88

Yes, absolutely, but there are pitfalls: * Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay * Consumers despite "Least common denominator" which is often the result of "design by committee". Usually consumers are after something niche, unique, artistic, and creative, which is the inspiration…

> Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some. Ex: Hey we can't pay workers $250/hr without raises prices to above what customers are willing to pay Somehow finances have to work, which is usually a harsh reality for some owners. Ex: Hey we can't have collective payout to investors totaling $10M this year without raises prices to above what customers are wiling to pay.

This is one of the main advantages owner operators have over PE funded or publicly traded businesses.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#137

Post by amelius » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 10:37 PM UTC

Not in any successful way, because the entire profit margin is being eaten by delivery companies like Uber Eats. There is no financial future in restaurants, worker-owned or not.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#138

Post by avgcorrection » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 10:38 PM UTC

SenoraRaton wrote: post #5

One thing that I never understood was, if an employees wages are tied to the success of the company, would that not incentivize better work ethic as a whole? That is how it works in the start-up world. You get equity, you have literally invested in the company, and you know that your work should (in theory) directly benefit you financially. Instead we end up in a system where the employee/employer relationship is inh…

This is a concept that dumbfounds people today (at least many on this startup incubator forum) but that Adam Smith explained over two-hundred years ago. Yes, workers and owners end up forming two distinct groups with two distinct class interests.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#139

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 10:39 PM UTC

reducesuffering wrote: post #121

skavi wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had no idea. They’ve got great pizza with very reasonable prices. (and some huge sizes)

Very reasonable prices are $40 + 8% coop fee for a standard large pizza? That's almost $50 after tax. https://asliceofny.com/sunnyvale/menu/

A “standard large pizza” is 14", the size of their small; 16" is a common extra-large size, their large is 18” (1.65× the size of a “standard large pizza”, by area.)

$43.20 ($40+8%) is quite reasonable for an 18" multiple topping pizza.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#140

Post by ska » Mon, Aug 28, 2023, 10:39 PM UTC

kikokikokiko wrote: post #119

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be interesting to see reports of long-term experiments of this sort, see how businesses run this way fare over time and whether this sort of model is unsustainable, or if these people are onto something effective that stands the test of time. Any other restaurants who have tried this sort of model in the past and stuck with it?

The simple fact that you never ever heard about something like that, tells you all you need to know aboit the long term prospect of business owned by "the collective". In my part of the world we have a saying " what fattens the cows is the owner's gaze". A company that belongs to everyone working there belongs to no one, and it will eventually become a freeloader's dream. I have heard of one or two examples of this t…

>The simple fact that you never ever heard about something like that

actually there are lots of examples, so it can't be that simple.