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Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

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Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#41

Post by fallingknife »

tristor wrote: post #33
werewrsdf wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is generally not how things work. Your same argument could be made if they realized the restaurant was very popular/profitable (with low empoloyee wages). Rents have to be somewhat in line with market. They can't just increase rents ignoring the rest of the market. If you are arguing that switch costs are high, so they can. That may be somewhat true, but I know of multiple restaurants in my area that have moved.…

> That is generally not how things work. Your same argument could be made if they realized the restaurant was very popular/profitable (with low empoloyee wages). Rents have to be somewhat in line with market. They can't just increase rents ignoring the rest of the market. No, that is actually pretty much exactly how things work. Successful restaurants get higher rents on lease renewal which is why they're incentivize…

How does the landlord know how much money the restaurant is making? All they would know is that the rent is paid on time and the restaurant "looks busy," which really isn't an accurate picture of income at all.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#42

Post by baby-yoda »

SenoraRaton wrote: post #5

One thing that I never understood was, if an employees wages are tied to the success of the company, would that not incentivize better work ethic as a whole? That is how it works in the start-up world. You get equity, you have literally invested in the company, and you know that your work should (in theory) directly benefit you financially. Instead we end up in a system where the employee/employer relationship is inh…

Wages tied to success of the company, ie profit sharing; how much more profitable could a restaurant become if every employee gives it their absolute best labor output? A few percentage points here and there? Certainly not orders of magnitude. Maybe theres no improvement in some situations at all? I don't see it as much of an incentive, especially if the variable compensation is partly in lieu of fixed compensation.

The startup scenario you mention offers the potential for huge payouts (of course this plays out wildly across a spectrum). A far easier sell to employees, IMO.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#43

Post by lotsofpulp »

vector_spaces wrote: post #27
wcerfgba wrote: post #4

Wonderful story, thanks for sharing. Do you know any worker-owned food businesses? Share in the comments! In Preston, UK, we have The Larder. Not sure about the ownership model but it is a social enterprise working on food justice: https://larder.org.uk/

In San Francisco, the Rainbow Grocery Cooperative has been around since the 70s. While working in the food industry in San Francisco, I had heard that employees there made in the ballpark of 100k~ a year, but that's purely hearsay and I have no idea how accurate it is. Before Bay Area tech workers chime in with how even 100k~ is effectively unlivable out there, I'll mention that I lived on about 25k a year in the Bay…

In the western US, Winco is a pretty large grocery store owned by employees.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#44

Post by astrange »

tracker1 wrote: post #24
scotty79 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the exactly the same reason why basic income can't work if it's introduced on its own. This money will immediately land in the hands of landlords who'll just increase rent.

Considering a handful of companies already control most rental pricing, and already extract "maximum value" from those properties, I'm not sure it would be any different in any direction. I don't get why there isn't some level of Trust Busting going on regarding the rental property pricing management at all.

Because it's not true. People only think this because of an innumerate article from ProPublica.

Almost all landlords are small time, only own one or two buildings, and can't organize a cartel. Except there's one way they can - by changing the law to favor them by banning new construction.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#45

Post by seanmcdirmid »

lnxg33k1 wrote: post #6
wahnfrieden wrote: post #2

Toronto has a good and popular seafood restaurant downtown that I understand operates as a worker-owned cooperative. Of course hierarchy is unnecessary, but there are a lot of people with resources and vested interest in it appearing otherwise. The group in the article take the approach of consensus-based decision making. For high velocity work like in a software company, I am more interested in the consent-based dec…

Also in Italy there is a region where a lot of "companies" are cooperatives, (Emilia-Romagna), I'd say it's one of the wealthiest regions in Italy, I've lived there and was one of my happiest time in my life. I'd say a restaurant owned by workers can work, but as everything depends who do you work with, more than class, is personalities that make the difference, that's why I don't like these kind of articles, I think…

Switzerland has a retail/grocery chain called co-op, I always wondered if it was an actual coop or not, I’m guessing it is.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#46

Post by astrange »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #43
vector_spaces wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In San Francisco, the Rainbow Grocery Cooperative has been around since the 70s. While working in the food industry in San Francisco, I had heard that employees there made in the ballpark of 100k~ a year, but that's purely hearsay and I have no idea how accurate it is. Before Bay Area tech workers chime in with how even 100k~ is effectively unlivable out there, I'll mention that I lived on about 25k a year in the Bay…

In the western US, Winco is a pretty large grocery store owned by employees.

Publix is employee-owned in the South, but some own a lot more than others.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#48

Post by FredPret »

jeffbee wrote: post #3

Why doesn't the word "rent" appear in here anywhere? If the landlord becomes aware that the restaurant pays way above industry norms, it will raise the rents at the earliest opportunity to squeeze that money back out of the business. Either they own the building or have an existing long-term lease.

Those evil landlords and their infinite pricing power. If only there was competition among landlords (ie, build more).

In all seriousness, businesses can move (easier said than done for a restaurant) and commercial leases are very long, 5-10 years.

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#49

Post by astrange »

wcerfgba wrote: post #17
aogaili wrote: post #12

Any good examples of something like that implemented in the software domain?

Yes, in UK we have a network of tech workers co-ops: https://www.coops.tech/about

This is a bad sign. The UK is like Argentina - if they've adopted an economic idea that means it doesn't work and you need to run away from it.

https://twitter.com/JosephPolitano/status/169124217640185446...

Re: Can a worker-owned restaurant work?

#50

Post by mordae »

deegles wrote: post #7
SenoraRaton wrote: post #5

One thing that I never understood was, if an employees wages are tied to the success of the company, would that not incentivize better work ethic as a whole? That is how it works in the start-up world. You get equity, you have literally invested in the company, and you know that your work should (in theory) directly benefit you financially. Instead we end up in a system where the employee/employer relationship is inh…

I (naively) think a restaurant would have an easier time detecting people who are doing the bare minimum. The issue becomes how to "punish" freeloaders who are also owners? Imagine the nightmare scenario of a restaurant where every employee is a part of the LLC that owns it. "Firing" someone becomes an onerous legal process.

I think coops just vote on it.
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