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‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

fortune.com

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Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#91

Post by ribosometronome »

darth_avocado wrote: post #55
Tiktaalik wrote: post #21

> the latest retailer to capitulate to rising crime and lower foot traffic. Nordstrom also bailed on the entirety of the Canadian market. Was that also due to crime in SF? It's difficult to communicate and explain the enormous secular and systemic rippling shifts in economic conditions that have followed the pandemic and the shift to work from home, particularly and extraordinarily pronounced in SF for various reason…

It’s typical of people who don’t live in SF to completely downplay the situation there as “propaganda” because it puts their favorite tribe under scrutiny. Stores can be shut down in one place for a specific reason while another place for a completely different reason. Nordstrom is located in probably the most expensive real estate in San Francisco, while the conditions just outside the stores are deteriorating. If t…

>It’s typical of people who don’t live in SF to completely downplay the situation there as “propaganda” because it puts their favorite tribe under scrutiny.

This feels pretty unnecessarily pointed while simultaneously kind of at odds with the point you're arguing in the next paragraph. It's not like San Jose isn't also a strong dem city. Shouldn't the apparent success you're pointing out in SJ while they struggle in SF indicate that the issue is specific to SF rather than a "tribal" concern?

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#92

Post by ribosometronome »

darth_avocado wrote: post #59
jeffbee wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whole Foods just broke ground in the Western Addition, Lucky opened a new store in the Bayview, and a whole new local grocery chain called Luke's just sprang into existence in the last year.

Flagship Whole Foods on market just shut down because of safety reasons. https://abc7.com/amp/whole-foods-san-francisco-store-closing...

To the point argued by the OP in this comment thread, Flagship Whole Foods /claims/ they shut down because of safety reasons. It looks better for leadership if the reasons they have to shut down are outside of their control, rather than things they should have been reasonably able to predict and thus look bad on them, like that opening a high end grocery store in a largely office district during the middle of a pandemic when no one was there is going to the area lead to issues getting people there.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#93

Post by borkt »

jahewson wrote: post #70
Tiktaalik wrote: post #21

> the latest retailer to capitulate to rising crime and lower foot traffic. Nordstrom also bailed on the entirety of the Canadian market. Was that also due to crime in SF? It's difficult to communicate and explain the enormous secular and systemic rippling shifts in economic conditions that have followed the pandemic and the shift to work from home, particularly and extraordinarily pronounced in SF for various reason…

“lower foot traffic” would cover work from home, no? Also I’ve been to this store and the area around it is nasty to the point that I no longer take my children there. Yes, retail is having a hard time in general but my goodness just go walk down that street - do it.

It was nasty before the pandemic. I’ve frequented the metreon imax for probably two decades, as well as conferences at the Moscone center. The more people became obsessed with the world in their phones, the less they cared what was going on physically around them. We aren’t entitled to nice things, people worked very hard to build and maintain them. Collectively we accepted the decay, and now we have nothing

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#94

Post by borkt »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #57
johnny99k wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

heh. I lived in Detroit for 2 decades (I was born there) and still visit regularly. I also worked in SF for a long time as well. Reply-guys being reply-guys.

I lived in Toledo for four years so visited Detroit often during that time, and I lived in the Bay Area for a few years as well. I just can’t see anyone saying SF is like Detroit without some huge distortions going on.

Where in the Bay Area do you currently live? We are talking about market street sf here, not sea cliff.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#96

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

Timon3 wrote: post #56
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the issue is that articles like this one tend to conflate individual poor people shoplifting small items with these organized gangs. I consider myself liberal, but this sentence highlights the point a lot of people have issue with: that somehow many "on the left" have rationalized theft as being OK if you're poor. That is absolutely the point at which society and the social contract breaks down, because it…

> I consider myself liberal, but this sentence highlights the point a lot of people have issue with: that somehow many "on the left" have rationalized theft as being OK if you're poor. That is absolutely the point at which society and the social contract breaks down, because it becomes exceedingly easy for anyone to rationalize taking something from others because "they deserve it" in some way. But what is the altern…

> Let's look at a dirt-poor person who hasn't eaten in multiple days. Sure, there are places you can try to get donated items, but those are getting more and more over-run.

Can we please be real about what we're talking about? This isn't early 19th century Paris from Les Miserables. On the contrary, SF has some of the best public services for the destitute of any place in the country. There are tons of places around the city where one can get free food.

> But surely at some point a human life is worth more than a bit of money in the store owners pockets?

My main concern is not about "a bit of money in the store owners pockets". It's abou signaling that the rules simply do not apply, that laws can be picked and chosen based on how you feel about the perpetrator.

Again, I said the punishment should fit the crime:

1. The person should be arrested, and basically be given the equivalent of "We'll show you how to access services in SF so you don't need to steal in the future. If you're not caught stealing in the next X months, your record will be cleared".

2. For further infractions, they should be given escalating warnings and escalating penalties.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#97

Post by kyleee »

notthemessiah wrote: post #65

Seems luxury retail is dying more so to cheaper competition from fast-fashion such as Zara, to individualized fashion online from Etsy, to hypebeast brands that seems to target younger demographics, to rising commercial real-estate rents and failure of shopping malls, to competition from delivery services, an an aging target audience (I don't know any millennials or younger who shop at Nordstrom). Retail theft is a d…

I am certain they are having a hard time getting customers in the younger demographics. For instance they rebranded their rewards program to “Nordy Club” in a ham fisted attempt to be hip. Just one telling example and I am sure they wasted millions on it.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#98

Post by aworks »

RC_ITR wrote: post #9
lusus_naturae wrote: post #3

I fail to understand how this is different from organized rings of train robbers in the old, old west. Maybe we need modern day cowboys now (per my recollection, cowboys played both sides of the law)? Most likely we'll have security drones, like Boston Dynamics's robot dog. Edit to say that having people hounded by security drones sounds like a terrible state of affairs. Having businesses robbed by organized gangs do…

The question you should be asking is if this is actually a shoplifting problem vs. a massive decline in SF’s willingness to shop in person. I sure don’t know anyone who talked about going to the downtown Nordstrom to buy anything. And I don’t think the root cause was shoplifting fears. This is an important question because while a scapegoat feels nice (they always do - look at the glee people are inserting into their…

I think retail locations ebb and flow and it's hard to parse through other factors. I suppose I'm a data point by keeping my location and Nordstrom as a constant over time with neighborhood as a variable.

25 years ago, it was particularly fun to go shopping at Union Square/Market Street, including Nordstrom. Then that devolved into going to Nordstrom at Stanford Shopping Center. Now I prefer to go to Nordstrom Rack in East Palo Alto. In the early 90s, I was afraid to drive through the town due to drug battles.

On the other hand, I still go to Hayes and Haight Streets in SF to shop, even if these urban neighborhoods can be "scruffy."

Maybe I like shopping areas that are interesting but not overly threatening.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#99

Post by kyleee »

ethanbond wrote: post #18
roflchoppa wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the old west you could fight for yourself, with restrictions to firearms the fight becomes one sided. Remember the Fed has stated they have no responsibility to protect you. Inb4 yeah both sides of the political parties are to blame for restrictions.

what on earth does the Fed have to do with self-protection?

Just read it as “the government”; I don’t believe they are talking about the federal reserve

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#100

Post by seanmcdirmid »

borkt wrote: post #94
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived in Toledo for four years so visited Detroit often during that time, and I lived in the Bay Area for a few years as well. I just can’t see anyone saying SF is like Detroit without some huge distortions going on.

Where in the Bay Area do you currently live? We are talking about market street sf here, not sea cliff.

Lived, sorry, typo, for 2 years. I’m pretty familiar with market street. Heck, I worked right next to the Caltrain station for a year, that area isn’t the nicest.
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