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‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

fortune.com

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Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#41

Post by rcme »

johnny99k wrote: post #29
Tiktaalik wrote: post #21

> the latest retailer to capitulate to rising crime and lower foot traffic. Nordstrom also bailed on the entirety of the Canadian market. Was that also due to crime in SF? It's difficult to communicate and explain the enormous secular and systemic rippling shifts in economic conditions that have followed the pandemic and the shift to work from home, particularly and extraordinarily pronounced in SF for various reason…

doubtful? Have you see the crime in SF? Walgreens has to have nearly everything locked up. You are right though. It's not just the crime. It's because the current government isn't willing to prosecute criminals that are stealing from these businesses. SF is starting to resemble Detroit, which has nearly no grocery stores in the city limits because of rampant crime.

A quick Google search seems to suggest there are plenty of grocery stores within San Francisco.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#42

Post by TheBlight »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #21

> the latest retailer to capitulate to rising crime and lower foot traffic. Nordstrom also bailed on the entirety of the Canadian market. Was that also due to crime in SF? It's difficult to communicate and explain the enormous secular and systemic rippling shifts in economic conditions that have followed the pandemic and the shift to work from home, particularly and extraordinarily pronounced in SF for various reason…

My suspicion is many people would be less reluctant to return to the office if the area didn't resemble the set of Mad Max.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#43

Post by avs733 »

RC_ITR wrote: post #9
lusus_naturae wrote: post #3

I fail to understand how this is different from organized rings of train robbers in the old, old west. Maybe we need modern day cowboys now (per my recollection, cowboys played both sides of the law)? Most likely we'll have security drones, like Boston Dynamics's robot dog. Edit to say that having people hounded by security drones sounds like a terrible state of affairs. Having businesses robbed by organized gangs do…

The question you should be asking is if this is actually a shoplifting problem vs. a massive decline in SF’s willingness to shop in person. I sure don’t know anyone who talked about going to the downtown Nordstrom to buy anything. And I don’t think the root cause was shoplifting fears. This is an important question because while a scapegoat feels nice (they always do - look at the glee people are inserting into their…

to add - the scapegoat here is also particularly useful to take attention away from consumer changes that would effect to operate expensive retail properties.

Not saying it is one or the other, just that nordstrom would be particularly motivated to shift blame because of what the alternative says about their broader business model. So maybe not taking them at their word.

That being said, i'll note that I'm SHOCKED how normalized shoplifting has become not just among 'the criminal element' but among my social set which is decidedly not your typical criminals. Stealing, especially from self checkouts, is increasingly openly discussed in my experience - and generally framed as 'its them paying me for doing their job of checking me out' or 'countering inflation/corporate greed'. Whether I agree with the morality of it or not and juts note that it is increasingly normalized. More broadly, I struggle with feeling sorry for corporations when the public lives under a never ending stream of abuse from corporate policies and control (c.f., everything being a subscription).

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#44

Post by gaulish »

tedajax wrote: post #23

Another store lying about "crime" being the reason they're closing.

I think I good question we can ask, are any major brands building new stores in San Francisco? That would be a good indicator of whether or not brands see the market as too-risky or that Nordstrom is using a convenient scapegoat.

I’m asking here the locals here, I haven’t been to the city in over 20 years so I haven’t the slightest idea.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#47

Post by intended »

jankyxenon wrote: post #19
DylanDmitri wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the people working at a store can’t afford any apartment within a forty minute commute the store will fail.

It's been true for a long time that people working at that store couldn't afford to live nearby (in general). What changed in the last few years though?

Covid

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#48

Post by stevehawk »

tedajax wrote: post #23

Another store lying about "crime" being the reason they're closing.

Even if they're lying, SF seems to be in denial about the wasteland it's becoming. Everyone's got a list of things they blame, but no one seems to have a list of changes they're willing to make to correct it.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#49

Post by johnny99k »

duskwuff wrote: post #37
johnny99k wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

doubtful? Have you see the crime in SF? Walgreens has to have nearly everything locked up. You are right though. It's not just the crime. It's because the current government isn't willing to prosecute criminals that are stealing from these businesses. SF is starting to resemble Detroit, which has nearly no grocery stores in the city limits because of rampant crime.

> SF is starting to resemble Detroit Ways you can tell that someone has never been to either San Francisco nor Detroit: a case in point.

heh. I lived in Detroit for 2 decades (I was born there) and still visit regularly. I also worked in SF for a long time as well.

Reply-guys being reply-guys.

Re: ‘San Francisco changed dramatically’ – Nordstrom is bailing on a flagship store

#50

Post by bluescrn »

tedajax wrote: post #23

Another store lying about "crime" being the reason they're closing.

Surely most of us have seen videos of mobs of youths shoplifting/looting stores in broad daylight. This isn't individuals shoplifiting covertly or even breaking in under cover of darkness. It appears to be a new and more openly lawless kind of theft, and those involved are surely aware that the risk is minimal?

And the footage spreading on social media will be likely be encouraging copycat groups to do the same, or escalate to even more brazen activity.

(What's hard to tell, as somebody not in the affected areas, is how widespread this kind of crime is. Social media will always spread the most shocking footage to a large audience, but it can often be falsely labelled, potentally old footage from elsewhere, dishonestly edited, shared by people with agendas, etc)

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