The concept of NFTs stored on a distributed ledger makes sense to me especially for the shitty games that sell skins. The idea they have some sort of value and can be considered a security, doesn't really. It is no different than the current in-game marketplaces that sell/resell skins from whatever game has skins this week. At what point does a thing you buy or sell become a security? Are baseball cards a security? S…
That's exactly what we've been trying to build at Ultra.io The push back from gamers has been non-stop and intense. I don't get it. They are willing to buy digital assets which can't be resold on an open market. They are not willing to buy digital assets that can. It's kind of bonkers.
SEC charges Impact Theory for unregistered offering of NFTs
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Re: SEC charges Impact Theory for unregistered offering of NFTs
#42When you buy a restaurant lunch, you are expecting to increase your work income via the efforts of the cooks. And you clearly invested money since you pay for the lunch before you ate it. That’s all 3 prongs if the Howey test. Why isn’t the SEC enforcing securities laws against lunch fraud? Lunches must publish their financial statements so lunch buyers can make informed decisions! Personally I am angry that restaura…
If crypto was actually like lunch -- returns were generated in minutes, there were tens of millions of successful examples that don't fail, and the insanely rare ones that fail in that mode risk double or low triple digit dollars -- then maybe the SEC wouldn't care as much.
Re: SEC charges Impact Theory for unregistered offering of NFTs
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
With baseball cards, You have an expectation that the MLB will continue to promote and develop Baseball as a top sport. You purchased an illegal security.
That seems materially different from an expectation that you will make money on the card, or that the value of your card is determined by MLB's profitability and future earnings.
Re: SEC charges Impact Theory for unregistered offering of NFTs
#44Re: SEC charges Impact Theory for unregistered offering of NFTs
#45The concept of NFTs stored on a distributed ledger makes sense to me especially for the shitty games that sell skins. The idea they have some sort of value and can be considered a security, doesn't really. It is no different than the current in-game marketplaces that sell/resell skins from whatever game has skins this week. At what point does a thing you buy or sell become a security? Are baseball cards a security? S…
That's exactly what we've been trying to build at Ultra.io The push back from gamers has been non-stop and intense. I don't get it. They are willing to buy digital assets which can't be resold on an open market. They are not willing to buy digital assets that can. It's kind of bonkers.
Re: SEC charges Impact Theory for unregistered offering of NFTs
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
This comes back to the core problem of crypto though - I agree that transferring skins would be cool or whatever, but distributed consensus does almost nothing to accomplish that. A game developer already has to opt-in to the NFT system and then maintain indefinite support for the NFT system, so if you trust them to do that why don’t you also trust them to maintain the ownership ledger?
There’s a lot of reasons this mechanism would be interesting for a game developer besides trust. e.g. mitigating payment processor fees. But to your question of trust, one interesting application would be in distributed & decentralized games intended to be released to the commons, see Dark Forest or Lattice.xyz. For these OSS projects, even if the original game devs decided to stop development, the community could pe…
- We’ve known for 2 decades how to do skin or items exchange between games. It involves relational databases. Valve does it for their games or at least could do it at will. There’s not one unsolved technical problem here
- There is zero incentive for developers, publishers and licensors (you know the people that make up the game industry) to adopt any of it. My company dies, the licenses terminate and your items are toast. Technology does not at all change any of it because it’s not a technology problem. It’s a licensing problem. And if I paid for the license, by god no other developer else should get that value for free.
- Developers don’t want other developers to affect their own games, affecting visual design, polygon budgets, performance, power or any other aspect of the game. No benefit, only drawbacks.
- No, we don’t want you to bring your lightsaber or mickey mouse costume (you know assets that people actually find valuable) int our game because that’s a straight visit from the lawyers at the house of mouse and probably makes our carefully crafted game look like ass.
- No middleman is only a problem if you need a middleman or the middleman fails to deliver value. Not if you can be the middleman. People attempt to muddle this down to a payments processor issue, but the last decade has shown crypto is just plain shit at that, from gas fees to security, lack of customer protection and any other dimension. And if it’s not payment, well, we could just as well use a database to share games between developers at the same publisher or valve.
- People bring up demand for external markets like Diablo’s Auction house. But these demand economies are fractions of the overall game value systems and increasing the focus on the fraction very quickly erodes and destroys the main game.
- IP licensors don’t benefit if people carry their IP from game to game unless game and game pay the fee
- Publishers don’t want to give telemetry or data associated with the movement of players to others. Sorry, that’s just not a good idea. And they want to sell you items again, not you hoarding older items.
Even gamers … don’t want it. They understand that this is mostly crypto bro driven attempts of turning every game into a gacha / real world money affects escapism fantasy for people with less money when every rich brat is parading their instagram assets through town.
The only people who think this is a great idea (including Boz) are in silicon valley with a long history of failing to understand games.
Re: SEC charges Impact Theory for unregistered offering of NFTs
#47The concept of NFTs stored on a distributed ledger makes sense to me especially for the shitty games that sell skins. The idea they have some sort of value and can be considered a security, doesn't really. It is no different than the current in-game marketplaces that sell/resell skins from whatever game has skins this week. At what point does a thing you buy or sell become a security? Are baseball cards a security? S…
That's exactly what we've been trying to build at Ultra.io The push back from gamers has been non-stop and intense. I don't get it. They are willing to buy digital assets which can't be resold on an open market. They are not willing to buy digital assets that can. It's kind of bonkers.
At any point the game maker can say "V1 assets aren't supported in V2". Or they can flood the market with "rare" items. Or they'll buy an item which was "stolen" and have it unilaterally revoked. Or... the list goes on.
There's also zero possibility of cross-game use. If ID releases the BFG9000 for free, is Skyrim going to let you shoot that at dragons?
But, here's the thing, don't listen to me. Listen to your (potential) customers. If they're all telling you that they don't want to buy what you're selling then take that as a sign.
Re: SEC charges Impact Theory for unregistered offering of NFTs
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
If NFTs are not securities, then I believe it would fall on the FTC, like most other consumer protections.
But what law is being broken, if NFTs aren't securities?
even the term “rug-pull” is not discerning enough, it refers to a dozen distinct behaviors, of which a few would still be illegal while the other many behaviors are just a misalignment of expectations
removing liquidity? thats not illegal under either consumer or securities framework and most commonly called a “rug pull”. communities can provide their own liquidity as a feature of the crypto space, and in no space do purchasers have an expectation for liquidity
ceasing to continue making press releases or taking down a website and community channels? also not illegal under the consumer or securities framework.
taking other people’s provided liquidity out of a staking contract without saying thats whats going to happen would be illegal under both frameworks. that kind of rug pull is theft.
collecting funds and promising to do X and then not even attempting it, thats prosecutable under both the consumer and securities frameworks, in more ways under a securities framework
Re: SEC charges Impact Theory for unregistered offering of NFTs
#49When you buy a restaurant lunch, you are expecting to increase your work income via the efforts of the cooks. And you clearly invested money since you pay for the lunch before you ate it. That’s all 3 prongs if the Howey test. Why isn’t the SEC enforcing securities laws against lunch fraud? Lunches must publish their financial statements so lunch buyers can make informed decisions! Personally I am angry that restaura…
Re: SEC charges Impact Theory for unregistered offering of NFTs
#50The concept of NFTs stored on a distributed ledger makes sense to me especially for the shitty games that sell skins. The idea they have some sort of value and can be considered a security, doesn't really. It is no different than the current in-game marketplaces that sell/resell skins from whatever game has skins this week. At what point does a thing you buy or sell become a security? Are baseball cards a security? S…
That's exactly what we've been trying to build at Ultra.io The push back from gamers has been non-stop and intense. I don't get it. They are willing to buy digital assets which can't be resold on an open market. They are not willing to buy digital assets that can. It's kind of bonkers.
Micro-transactions in general are gross. NFT backed micro-transactions are not more or less gross, but they're still gross by association./