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Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

businessinsider.com

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Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#71

Post by [deleted] »

briffle wrote: post #48
kotaKat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the FAA's normal mental health brigade horseshit, except this time it's the FAA snooping around in VA records just because they can. It looks like the veterans being targeted have various concerns like PTSD, which the FAA finds that as soon as you even think you're depressed, they want to revoke your pilots license because they think you'll immediately pull Some Shit in the air. The average person has no clue ho…

Right, its not like hundreds of people's lives are in these pilot's hands. I can't imagine what a depressed pilot might do.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

[deleted]

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#72

Post by aaomidi »

nmjohn wrote: post #66
briffle wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, its not like hundreds of people's lives are in these pilot's hands. I can't imagine what a depressed pilot might do.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

Do you know what prevents people from doing that? Being able to get help for their problems. Do you know what doesn't? Forcing them to hide their problems so they are able to keep their job. The discussion isn't really about whether suicidal pilots should be allowed to fly - it's whether the system should allow for pilots with mental health concerns (which would be a large majority of them over the course of an entir…

100% Exactly this.

It's outright irresponsible to not take into account the chilling effect this is going to have on seeking treatment for mental health problems.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#73

Post by justrealist »

23B1 wrote: post #62
justrealist wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The negative PR from wrongfully denying a vet benefits is so bad, and the system is completely un-incentivized to be cost-effective, that there are basically 0 real eligibility tests. Any politician (or bureaucrat) who says "you know, maybe we should be denying disability to 20% of these veterans" is going to be strung up and quartered. So, nobody tries.

I'd wager that a big part of the PR hazard is that American taxpayers supported the war(s) – and therefore there is a sense of obligation amongst them that vets should get whatever support they think they need. Not saying grift is excusable, but there's a lot of checks and balances on this system – not the least of which if a veteran is caught lying, he loses his benefits and may even have to pay them back.

> not the least of which if a veteran is caught lying, he loses his benefits and may even have to pay them back

If you claim PTSD, trauma, or back/knee/joint pain without fabricating the material circumstances of your injury (lying about where you were stationed or what you were doing), there is a 0% chance you will be accused, much less convicted, of lying.

Look for a single vet disability fraud case (and there aren't many, period) where the conviction was for anything other than outright fabrication of service record.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#74

Post by alistairSH »

docandrew wrote: post #36
mattw2121 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These benefits (and the gaming of them) are not about receiving medical care. These veterans already get free medical care from the VA. It's about monetary payments. They game the VA disability system to get paid.

I’m not sure how “gaming” it is possible when the VA either performs (or contracts out) medical exams for a veteran’s specific claim and determines whether the veteran is eligible or not. It’s not like they just take a veteran’s word for it.

Yet this article is claiming the opposite... there is some non-zero number of pilots receiving VA funds (for PTSD and similar health concerns) while not reporting those issues to the FAA.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#75

Post by rowanG077 »

briffle wrote: post #48
kotaKat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the FAA's normal mental health brigade horseshit, except this time it's the FAA snooping around in VA records just because they can. It looks like the veterans being targeted have various concerns like PTSD, which the FAA finds that as soon as you even think you're depressed, they want to revoke your pilots license because they think you'll immediately pull Some Shit in the air. The average person has no clue ho…

Right, its not like hundreds of people's lives are in these pilot's hands. I can't imagine what a depressed pilot might do.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

If you crash the plane if you are depressed the reason is not that you are depressed. The reason is you are a psychopath.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#76

Post by millzlane »

pc86 wrote: post #59
millzlane wrote: post #3

I wouldn't call it harassment. It's clear it's just easier to catch the vets because they also lied to the VA. I admit they VA has it short comings. But there more vets in need then there are not,embellishing your condition to get more benefits is dishonorable. What's not surprising is pilots who lie about their health to keep making money. Especially in this economy.

"This economy" is doing pretty great at the moment. Inflation down, market up, jobs for basically anyone reading this forum are available, unless you confuse "literally being thrown at you from all angles" with unavailable. Have you ever dealt with the VA? They will lie, cheat, and steal to deny benefits at any and all opportunities. Not saying that that makes lying to them or the government right, but how many peopl…

My mom is a vet and 1 of 2 that I'm a caregiver for. So yea, I've dealt with them. I have 45 days of vacation saved to deal with their crap. Luckily my mom gets transportation benefits that helps.

I can't argue with why they do it. It's survival. I just know instead of working/gaming the system, we need to change it.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#77

Post by rblatz »

mattw2121 wrote: post #35
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've known and worked with multiple veterans and each one of them gamed these systems to maximum benefit. So exactly like private employees & companies? I'm not sure we should be expecting humans not to game systems to their own benefit. Isn't that basic human nature?

Yes, I think we should expect people to act with integrity. When they don't we should call them out. I'm all for social programs to help people in need, but I end up opposing most of the proposed social programs. Why is this? Because people game them. If people acted with integrity, and only people that truly needed assistance utilized social programs, then I think you'd find far less people oppose them.

You acknowledge the need for social programs and back the concept of them, but in practice vote against them because people game the system?

Why not design a system that isn’t susceptible to gaming and doesn’t rely on all people acting with integrity and instead embraces that people will act in their own best interest even if it results in long term worse outcomes overall?

Things like universal health care and universal basic income provide a flat benefit to all, so gaming the system doesn’t give an unfair advantage to some.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#78

Post by kkielhofner »

tycho-newman wrote: post #63
briffle wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, its not like hundreds of people's lives are in these pilot's hands. I can't imagine what a depressed pilot might do.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanwings_Flight_9525

Perfectly competent pilots have killed more people than depressed ones since the beginning of flight. Empirically, non-depressed pilots are more of a risk to the public. But they don't get this kind of stigma.

It’s also one of the more glaring issues still present in regard to mental health stigmatization - that people with mental health issues are a danger to others.

The overwhelming majority of people experiencing mental health issues are only a danger to themselves (worst case).

The differences in suicide rates compared to murder-suicide rates back this up but per usual extremely rare cases or murder-suicide grab headlines while the 125 suicides per day on average in the US are completely unknown to anyone other than the people personally impacted by them.

Not only are murder-suicides sensational, the “murder” component bypasses the otherwise standard media practice of not reporting on suicides because of the data on upticks in additional suicides due to reporting.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#79

Post by millzlane »

Geisterde wrote: post #15
millzlane wrote: post #3

I wouldn't call it harassment. It's clear it's just easier to catch the vets because they also lied to the VA. I admit they VA has it short comings. But there more vets in need then there are not,embellishing your condition to get more benefits is dishonorable. What's not surprising is pilots who lie about their health to keep making money. Especially in this economy.

Dishonorable? Lying us into wars is dishonorable. Stop putting government bureaucrats in charge of so much money, its obvious they can't spend it appropriately, I could get a hell of a lot more bang for my buck out of spending my own money.

I can't argue with that. You've make good points. Both my parents were vets and I was in ROTC and civil air patrol for many years.

Re: Feds probing roughly 5k pilots suspected of withholding major health issues

#80

Post by 23B1 »

mattw2121 wrote: post #69
black6 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of us veterans were paid below the poverty line most of the time we were in the service. Disability benefits are one way many seek to get what they're owed.

Can you provide specific details on this? My understanding is that even if you were continually at the rank of E-1 (which would never happen), your salary + housing + subsistence would put you well over the poverty line.

1. Housing isn't necessarily provided, can depend on rank, marital status, and other factors like the amount of military-provided housing provided on a post (it's often not enough, or of extremely low and even dangerous quality)

2. Salary is provided to the person who is in the service. Unfortunately, the areas that military bases are in are generally not economically productive areas. This especially hurts the spouses who'd otherwise have jobs because they're living in a career desert, and there's not a lot of households today that can survive on a single income. In fact, it was only just this year that the Biden admin finally recognized this: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...

3. Substinence (I'm going to put healthcare in this category) – so let's say I'm a soldier who gets injured on the job. Not only is military healthcare awful (https://www.fiercehealthcare.com/healthcare/military-hospita...) but often times they won't even properly care for you to the point you could die: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/pentagon-denies-cl... and so you seek second opinions in severe cases, which you have to pay out-of-pocket. Combine this with the fact that the VA will deny real claims for literal decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honoring_our_PACT_Act_of_2022 and you're so far up shit creek in a job you can't quit...

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