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Lie still in bed

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Re: Lie still in bed

#221

Post by sizzle »

flurdy wrote: post #137

I wrote [1] about my tip for falling sleep: Daydream. I now coach my own kids to do the same and it works. Essentially do not think about things that has happened; It just gets you annoyed with regrets that can not be changed. Do not think about the future; You will get excited, anxious, annoyed and too worked up to sleep. Also covers sports, politics, relationship, technology etc. Think about things that do not affe…

I pretend I’m snowboarding and imagine the scenery passing by and works like a charm.

Re: Lie still in bed

#222

Post by KolenCh »

thomasahle wrote: post #147
flurdy wrote: post #137

I wrote [1] about my tip for falling sleep: Daydream. I now coach my own kids to do the same and it works. Essentially do not think about things that has happened; It just gets you annoyed with regrets that can not be changed. Do not think about the future; You will get excited, anxious, annoyed and too worked up to sleep. Also covers sports, politics, relationship, technology etc. Think about things that do not affe…

For years I fell asleep thinking about some math problem I was working on. Worked wonders, never had any issues falling asleep. Then I left academia, and were no longer thinking about math all day. An unforeseen consequence: I started having issues falling asleep. Now I need to regularly look up puzzles or maybe challenging programming problems, just to have something relaxing to fill my mind while falling asleep.

I have occasionally had an opposite experience with you: sometimes I worked out some math problem in my dream and I woke up to write it down.

If I think about some problems while I'm trying to sleep, it would just keep me awake though.

What kind of problems would you be thinking? How does that work—Is the thinking process making you tired so you fall asleep, or does it make you more relaxing?

Re: Lie still in bed

#223

Post by xctr94 »

flurdy wrote: post #137

I wrote [1] about my tip for falling sleep: Daydream. I now coach my own kids to do the same and it works. Essentially do not think about things that has happened; It just gets you annoyed with regrets that can not be changed. Do not think about the future; You will get excited, anxious, annoyed and too worked up to sleep. Also covers sports, politics, relationship, technology etc. Think about things that do not affe…

I empathize and can second this as well. For a few years I’ve been visualizing a spaceship I travel in. By now there’s a lot of detail, so it doesn’t always work; but if the day got me in a sour mood, at least I know my ‘special’ space is waiting for me at bedtime.

Re: Lie still in bed

#224

Post by joedevon »

quag wrote: post #144
flurdy wrote: post #137

I wrote [1] about my tip for falling sleep: Daydream. I now coach my own kids to do the same and it works. Essentially do not think about things that has happened; It just gets you annoyed with regrets that can not be changed. Do not think about the future; You will get excited, anxious, annoyed and too worked up to sleep. Also covers sports, politics, relationship, technology etc. Think about things that do not affe…

I’ve found something similar: to fall asleep visualise something vividly. It could be a scenario (a daydream as you suggest) or a scene. The steps go something like this: be still, relax face, stop thinking (or distract self with audio you’re heard before), vividly picture, wake up.

You clearly don't have aphantasia

Re: Lie still in bed

#225

Post by Swordfish12345 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #127
Swordfish12345 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people with ADHD...because their brains don't work like this. You might be surprised to find out that there is actually no proof of this. The biggest thing impacting people with ADHD symptoms is the diagnosis. It implies they have a brain disorder, and cuts short any exploration into environmental causes of their symptoms. And an environmental cause may in fact be, simply not trying some simple advice from this art…

I would be very surprised because that's complete nonsense. ADHD is a neurodevelopmental disorder with changes in both neurochemistry and structural development of the brain [1]. This is why drugs like Adderall are highly effective in treating the symptoms of ADHD. You cannot cure disorders of the brain by reading blogs on the internet, and it is this kind of ignorance that has given people with neurological issues a…

> _Emerging_ Neurobiology

They key point is "emerging".

You will find a lot of research, but there are no meta-analyses of brain imaging or gene studies showing any correlation to those diagnosed with ADHD. Even the diagnostic manual, the DSM-5, explicitly states that no biomarkers for diagnosis exist. The descriptive diagnostic criteria for ADHD were simply made up by a group of psychiatrists in the 1980s from their observations. So the definition of ADHD is entirely recursive.

So all we know is people have some basket of symptoms, and an impairment in their ability to live their life, but an entirely unknown cause.

You may also be surprised to find that there is no proof of the link between depression and serotonin either - which is the main theory for treatment.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0

Re: Lie still in bed

#226

Post by Swordfish12345 »

InSteady wrote: post #125
Swordfish12345 wrote: post #116

The biggest problem of our modern age is the removal of agency. We are being pathologized by pseudo-science all around us. When people mention "willpower", everyone today is looking for a diagnosis as an excuse instead. Some things really are as simple as articles like this. The failing is education. People don't understand the way they have re-shaped their brains from pretty much everything spawning from the interne…

>When people mention "willpower", everyone today is looking for a diagnosis as an excuse instead. >People don't understand the way they have re-shaped their brains from pretty much everything spawning from the internet and tv. Sounds like people are looking to understand, but maybe according to you they are looking in the wrong places? Also, who is everyone? I think a ton of Westerners and especially Americans have b…

> What diagnoses are we talking about

I've only looked into depression[1] and ADHD[2].

The symptoms are real. The impairment is real. But the cause is unknown.

> Americans have been conditioned into believing various convenient lies...spend your money 'correctly.'

I think you made my argument better than I could!

ADHD = pay money for pills. Depression = pay money for pills.

There couldn't be anything easier than just spending money to make problems go away.

If someone tells you your brain is broken, why bother with willpower.

Same with institutional racism really. If the system's against you, why try.

[1]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0

[2]: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fsoc.2022.81476...

Re: Lie still in bed

#227

Post by jhanschoo »

KolenCh wrote: post #222
thomasahle wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For years I fell asleep thinking about some math problem I was working on. Worked wonders, never had any issues falling asleep. Then I left academia, and were no longer thinking about math all day. An unforeseen consequence: I started having issues falling asleep. Now I need to regularly look up puzzles or maybe challenging programming problems, just to have something relaxing to fill my mind while falling asleep.

I have occasionally had an opposite experience with you: sometimes I worked out some math problem in my dream and I woke up to write it down. If I think about some problems while I'm trying to sleep, it would just keep me awake though. What kind of problems would you be thinking? How does that work—Is the thinking process making you tired so you fall asleep, or does it make you more relaxing?

For me I sometimes fall asleep to undergrad math problems, the more challenging ones. By then, I'm too tired to want to write things down (since that will wake me up), so it's really hard to make actual progress, or thoroughly plan out the formal steps required to verify a proof approach. So I just keep turning it over while trying to keep everything in my head. The focus required stops my mind from wandering and getting distracted.

Re: Lie still in bed

#228

Post by akvadrako »

Llamamoe wrote: post #166
dloss wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people sleeping alone, this counting technique might be a nerdy alternative: http://www.dirk-loss.de/calmyourmind/ Moreover, I find Shinzen Young's reframing helpful: "Amazingly, it’s possible to get a good night’s rest without necessarily sleeping much or at all. Two things are required: (1) that the body get rest by lying very still and corpse-like. (2) that the consciousness get rest by engaging in a systemati…

There is no possibility of this anyhow working. Sleep is not "mind rest", it's a neurological process completely different from and incompatible with consciousness. You can relieve some fraction of cognitive fatigue by taking a mental break, but this compares to sleep in much the same way as duct taping a broken tool compares to mending it properly.

It may not alleviate the need for sleep altogether, but if you meditate a lot, like 10 hours a day, you can function well long-term with very little sleep.

Re: Lie still in bed

#229

Post by Pooge »

djsavvy wrote: post #188
Pooge wrote: post #88

I used to be really bad at falling asleep. I'm not talking 30 minutes or 45 minutes, but sometimes 3 whole hours without being able to get 1 second of sleep. I didn't even touch my phone once while in bed. I also had a lot of trouble finding the right position in which to sleep to feel comfortable (not even talking about finding the right mattress/pillow combination). Somehow, I trained myself at sleeping on my back…

How did you train yourself to start sleeping on your back? I've been trying to stop side sleeping for a while due to some pains and postural concerns.

You can put pillows on the side to make it harder for you to roll on your side or stomach while asleep. It can also help alleviate some tension in the arms if you put them on top of it.

Depending on the mattress, you might have to put a pillow under your knees. Sometimes I don't and my legs begin to feel uncomfortable, and sometimes I can sleep just fine without support for my legs.

Re: Lie still in bed

#230

Post by Pooge »

sureglymop wrote: post #129
Pooge wrote: post #88

I used to be really bad at falling asleep. I'm not talking 30 minutes or 45 minutes, but sometimes 3 whole hours without being able to get 1 second of sleep. I didn't even touch my phone once while in bed. I also had a lot of trouble finding the right position in which to sleep to feel comfortable (not even talking about finding the right mattress/pillow combination). Somehow, I trained myself at sleeping on my back…

Will try this! Sounds like a good strategy to roll over to 200 once you reach 0. In the past when I tried the "endless counting" strategy that was still too much brain activity.

Counting backwards from 200 and starting over is easy enough to be done almost mindlessly, but at the same time hard enough to make you concentrate and thus keep your mind from wandering.
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