Live data from Hacker News

Scrum is a cancer

twitter.com

101–110 of 486 posts

Re: Scrum is a cancer

#101
post #43

I agree it's rarely "done right", but I've been in career long enough that waterfall was still common early in career and horrible crunch time targeting some date at end of 9-12 months projects was inevitable - Scrum was a total breath of fresh air back in 2005-2006 and saved my sanity. Basically we'd ask mgmt "what do you want next?" and they had to fuck off for the next 4 weeks while devs, ux, QA worked with no cha…

"pushing devs to overcommit to each sprint"

Yeah, that's definitely not Scrum like you said. The whole point is that the team promises to deliver features during a sprint and won't overcommit, they might deliver extra if they have extra time.

If your sprints continuously fail to deliver, then you need to decrease the team's velocity.

Re: Scrum is a cancer

#102
I have a lot of issues with scrum and I think twitter post and the comments here touch on a lot of them, but one of my biggest annoyances with the whole thing that I hardly ever hear anyone mention is the term "sprints".

If you asked a marathon runner how to run a marathon, they're going to tell you things like run slower, make sure you conserve energy, and control your pace. They're not going to tell you to mentally break the marathon into small sections and sprint them all.

I know it seems minor (and it probably is), but it's always felt a bit telling that the recurring segment for work in scrum is named after something you cannot do repeatedly without completely burning yourself out.

Re: Scrum is a cancer

#103
Someone has the courage to speak h truth. I have to finish work within a deadline, or it would look ugly, and I am trying to work today with ill health.

Why doesn't Scrum be a thing for humans? I feel like I'm a robot who has to be predictable all the time.

Re: Scrum is a cancer

#104
post #46

I’ve developed a more nuanced view on Scrum since working as a contractor for a medium sized software company, but adjacent to their normal dev teams. I used to have the view that Scrum is a useless batch of meetings, that sucks the life and productivity out of the dev process. Now, after seeing it from an adjacent (but not subjugated under it) perspective, I think it is a life-sucking batch of meetings that are good…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37134050

> Not everybody knows that, but Scrum was invented to manage a team of dysfunctional COBOL programmers at a bank, not for product-led tech companies, and certainly not for startups.

> If you're mostly hiring juniors, low-skilled, unpassionate, unable to work autonomously without constant handlholding, reactive instead of proactive people, then you'll certainly need some micromanaging SDLC like Scrum.

Re: Scrum is a cancer

#105
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No love for Scrum but this is the more likely explanation. A good team that runs itself? Ofc it doesn't need Ten Scrum Masters to deliver value. Now, the real question is why leadership tries to salvage failing teams with Scrum? Save the wasted money, use it to hire top talent instead... easy.

Top talent does not exist. This problem exists at big tech and startup, in companies that spend fractional multipliers of the average salary on engineers as well as those who pay poorly. In this environment, if your solution is "hire better people', you can't- there isn't any

> This problem exists at big tech and startup,

Big tech or startup status are not correlated with top talent. I've seen the whole spectrum of low to high talent from both places.

> in companies that spend fractional multipliers of the average salary on engineers as well as those who pay poorly

Pay and top skill are only slightly correlated, unfortunately.

> Top talent does not exist.

It does exist. I've seen it, but most managers don't know how to find it, identify it, and retain it.

Re: Scrum is a cancer

#106
post #44
post #13

Interesting phenomenon happens at my place which is scrum + Safe. Our team gets publicly dinged if we "carry over" tickets between sprints, so if we finish our work with 2 days left the manager asks not to start anything new. The process is a performance within a performance, literally getting told NOT to do more work. This is what happens when you have chart-oriented-development (particularly jira's toxic charts). Y…

> Our team gets publicly dinged if we "carry over" tickets between sprints This is not part of scrum

You'd be surprised at how many places this is.

At a place I worked the management decided that a "story" should always be completed within a sprint. So what did we do? We started using stories instead of tasks and epics instead of stories[0]. And voila, now magically stories complete within a sprint!

[0] Just writing that sentence makes my eye twitch

Re: Scrum is a cancer

#107

Typical immature bullshit where someone describes their own company's screwed-up incompetent so-called "Scrum" and "Agile" implementation, and then claims that that's universalizable amongst all companies everywhere. Just because a so-called "Scrum Master" not worth the title is forcing you to do BS things that inhibit your flow does not mean it's emblematic of the species. I mean, how would you feel if someone gener…

This is a No True Scotsman argument. The guy enumerated a list of ways scrum failed in his experience; it's always interesting to hear honestly about failure modes from people who have actually used something a lot in their work.

The same thing works the other way. People see and experience shit Scrum and then they No True Scotsman it to mean that all Scrum must be shit.

It seems to me that most American software companies use Cargo Cult Scrum. They basically take the terms and maybe read a blog about the processes and just wing it from there.

The only way an Agile/Scrum process works if you bring in a consulting company that's expensive enough to make even the top brass buy into it. You can theoretically try to bring it in from the ground up, but it's really hard to do Agile when the rest of the company is either waterfall or flying by the seat of their pants.

Re: Scrum is a cancer

#108
post #51
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there an alternative anyone would recommend. It might not be the best question to ask given the complexity of the software and experience/culture of the team.

I developed an alternative called “Hot-Potato Agile” while at Google. I got buy-in to try it, but then was laid off in January just before we could start. So if you have a team that likes sprint cadence but hates the scrum busywork and is open to an experiment, let me know! I still want to flesh out this thing’s rough edges.

I'd be interested too. Until it's too hot to handle.

Re: Scrum is a cancer

#109
I'm honestly surprised to see a post with a vitriol-to-insight ratio so bent in favor of vitriol getting such a positive response. I think the poster here is way, way off mark.

It's incredibly frustrating, because so many of the things he says suggest that he or his organizations truly don't understand scrum, yet he proactively goes on the offensive against anyone who suggests he's wrong and won't listen to any evidence that he is. (And yes, I get that this post is just a 'vent', but 'just venting' content is not usually the sort of thing I expect to see make the front page of HN.)

I have been on multiple teams, including my current one, where Scrum has been a massive success (as measured by products shipping on time and in-spec with positive reception by customers, as measured by the company making money off my work, as measured by my own and my team's performance assessments relative to my org). Absolutely none of the following happen on my team, or on any team I've been on where things were working in those terms:

> We spent more time talking than doing. > We spent more time estimating story points than writing software. > We measured how much it cost to deliver one story point and then wrote contracts where clients paid for a package of "500 story points." > We paid people who told us whether we were "burning down points" fast enough. > We brought professional Scrum trainers. We paid people from our team to get certified. > We spent years [continuing to try things that didn't work].

Absolutely none of this happens on my current team and absolutely none of this is required to do Scrum "right" or at all. I've been on three teams in my current organization and five+ teams overall that used Scrum over a period of more than eight years and while all of them had issues, none of them did any of the above. I'm sorry this person has had so many bad experiences, but at a certain point, you've got to ask whether your attitude and approach are part of the problem. I see a lot of things in this person's attitude that make me think they could be.

For example, he makes comments where he just whines about not liking terminology, like:

> 1. They tried to convince me that Poker is a planning tool, not a game. > 5. I had to use t-shirt sizes to estimate software.

He also phrases sentences which are not arguments (or at least, are not really relevant without some explanation) as though anyone should understand why he's mad:

> 3. We prohibited laptops in meetings. We had to stand. We passed a ball around to keep everyone paying attention.

and then finally, spends lots of time asserting (with no evidence) things like:

> [Scrum] fails everywhere, every time, but they tell you “you aren’t doing it right.”

while simultaneously talking down anyone who tries to suggest he's maybe, legitimately not understanding Scrum.

If this is the approach he took with the people who were trying to help him implement Scrum, no wonder it didn't work. It was probably never going to.

By the way, this person offers a service where you can pay him to present "learnings" about your content on Twitter, or wherever. Without disclosing that the content is sponsored. Pretty scummy. See https://www.svpino.com/

Re: Scrum is a cancer

#110

Typical immature bullshit where someone describes their own company's screwed-up incompetent so-called "Scrum" and "Agile" implementation, and then claims that that's universalizable amongst all companies everywhere. Just because a so-called "Scrum Master" not worth the title is forcing you to do BS things that inhibit your flow does not mean it's emblematic of the species. I mean, how would you feel if someone gener…

Typical Scrum apologist who describes how someone else must have screwed up Scrum or Agile. They then claim that pure "Scrum" or "Agile" has never been implemented anywhere. If only people weren't so ignorant, we could give pure Scrum a try and solve all the world's problems.

The guy in the Twitter pretty much mentions every red flag implementing scrum.

What did you expect the parent commenter to say? "you've done well and have shown that scrum doesn't work"?

Post reply on HN