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Lie still in bed

ognjen.io

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Re: Lie still in bed

#211

Post by JohnBooty »

skygazer wrote: post #183
anonyfox wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ADHD chiming in. That approach just doesn’t work when you have to actively spend nontrivial brain energy to even brush your teeth, every day. There is no such thing as a hackable routine, atomic/keystone habits, or „too lazy to stay on track“.

I have ADHD. My intended habits are very fragile, and if a single visual cue goes missing, I'll skip a step -- if my wife removes my antiperspirant from the counter, then I just unwittingly skip that step that day. I rely on rube Goldberg machinations. I have one trick that works, but I hate it. I build checklists with routine tasks, like morning and evening routines, or packing for a trip, etc, and automate sending…

First, as a fellow ADHD person... damn. I empathize.

My life is a whole bunch of Rube Goldberg-ass workarounds too. It feels like nothing but workarounds sometimes. A thing held together with so much duct tape that I sometimes wonder if it's just duct tape all the way down.

    it didn't end up building any very strong habits 
    that could stand alone outside this system
I mean, I would say that using the system you came up with was a valuable habit and that is the kind of "hacking" I was thinking of when I wrote the parent post.

Some folks interpreted it as me saying that ADHD (which I initially never even mentioned) and other problems could just be magically mindhacked away or something.

I don't feel that's what I wrote, and it certainly not what I believe.

Re: Lie still in bed

#212

Post by zaat »

JohnBooty wrote: post #209
zaat wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it extremely naive, and I highly doubt there's lack of unsuccessful people who hold similar views. Maximal versions of the belief are actually quite fashionable from time to time, "The Secret" book for an example. In reality, you can try liking a particular food containing Coriander, but your genetics can interfere, and try as you might, it will still taste like soap. You can lie in bad every night in total si…

you will be much more successful in life if you invest it breaking barriers you can overcome and avoid fighting losing battles. Cheers to that. I don't see any conflict between what you wrote and what I wrote. genetics [etc.] Please, be reasonable. I said that it was valuable and powerful to realize our brains are hackable, not that it was some limitless ridiculous sci-fi ability that could rewrite or circumvent your…

My issue was with the sentence from the article that you have started your comment with its quote, and described as so true and so powerful. In contrast to how you perceived that sentence, it had an immediate and strong negative effect on me when I was reading it in the article, exactly because

> genetics [etc.]

are known to be the underlining cause for the pains and struggles experienced by many night owls struggling to cope with society where everyone is expected to be a morning bird. And just like genetics interfere with the ability of some people to go to sleep at reasonable hours, genetics have very strong influence on the possibility that with practice you will be able to teach yourself to appreciate particular foods

Re: Lie still in bed

#213

Post by JohnBooty »

zaat wrote: post #212
JohnBooty wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you will be much more successful in life if you invest it breaking barriers you can overcome and avoid fighting losing battles. Cheers to that. I don't see any conflict between what you wrote and what I wrote. genetics [etc.] Please, be reasonable. I said that it was valuable and powerful to realize our brains are hackable, not that it was some limitless ridiculous sci-fi ability that could rewrite or circumvent your…

My issue was with the sentence from the article that you have started your comment with its quote, and described as so true and so powerful. In contrast to how you perceived that sentence, it had an immediate and strong negative effect on me when I was reading it in the article, exactly because > genetics [etc.] are known to be the underlining cause for the pains and struggles experienced by many night owls strugglin…

I am a night owl too, and I recognize that this is probably some kind of biological predisposition for me.

Yet I didn't feel offended or threatened by the article. Of course I can probably improve my sleep habits. I didn't interpret the article as telling me I could rewrite my DNA at will.

It's like if I told you that you could practice tennis or swimming and you found it very obnoxious because genetics probably prevents you from being Roger Federer or Michael Phelps.

At any rate, we're on the same page. I don't think you can magically stop being a night owl or whatever.

Re: Lie still in bed

#214

Post by pedalpete »

Labo333 wrote: post #11

There is an amazing trick that I now use almost every time I want to sleep: the 4-7-8 breathing method. I don't remember using it and not falling asleep in less than 5 minutes, whatever the stress I was in. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/16/health/4-7-8-breathing-te...

As a few of the commenters here are pointing to different breath patterns, and each has some science behind them, but what can't be ignored is that counting these breathing patterns is giving your brain a boring yet focused activity which aims to prevent the mind wandering and getting caught up in the thoughts that often keep people awake.

Re: Lie still in bed

#215

Post by ytoawwhra92 »

Llamamoe wrote: post #166
dloss wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For people sleeping alone, this counting technique might be a nerdy alternative: http://www.dirk-loss.de/calmyourmind/ Moreover, I find Shinzen Young's reframing helpful: "Amazingly, it’s possible to get a good night’s rest without necessarily sleeping much or at all. Two things are required: (1) that the body get rest by lying very still and corpse-like. (2) that the consciousness get rest by engaging in a systemati…

There is no possibility of this anyhow working. Sleep is not "mind rest", it's a neurological process completely different from and incompatible with consciousness. You can relieve some fraction of cognitive fatigue by taking a mental break, but this compares to sleep in much the same way as duct taping a broken tool compares to mending it properly.

> There is no possibility of this anyhow working.

I agree that this sort of rest is not equivalent to sleep. Nevertheless, this and similar techniques work well for reducing sleep anxiety. Less sleep anxiety tends to result in more and better quality sleep.

Re: Lie still in bed

#216

Post by TRiG_Ireland »

flurdy wrote: post #137

I wrote [1] about my tip for falling sleep: Daydream. I now coach my own kids to do the same and it works. Essentially do not think about things that has happened; It just gets you annoyed with regrets that can not be changed. Do not think about the future; You will get excited, anxious, annoyed and too worked up to sleep. Also covers sports, politics, relationship, technology etc. Think about things that do not affe…

I don't need to tell myself to daydream. I spend most of my life, I sometimes think, inventing worlds and indulging in various fantasies. I really should write some of them down sometimes.

Re: Lie still in bed

#217

Post by joveian »

Zircom wrote: post #194
djsavvy wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did you train yourself to start sleeping on your back? I've been trying to stop side sleeping for a while due to some pains and postural concerns.

Pillow under my knees and a thin one to hold on my chest and fold my arms on top of helped me get used to sleeping on my back.

But look out for signs of sleep apnea; I only get it sleeping on my back, which I rarely do. Possibly in some cases sleep apnea might be part of why it doesn't feel comfortable to sleep on your back. The other issue that is worse for me when I end up on my back is my mouth drying out (not good for teeth).

Re: Lie still in bed

#218

Post by smeej »

rognjen wrote: post #156
smeej wrote: post #86

Most of these comments are about sleep, but the article really isn't. It's about where to apply willpower to change a habit, slowly but surely. I found the part about recognizing small changes rather than fixating on the end goal especially helpful. You don't need to go to sleep an hour earlier to be building a habit. Two minutes more effort counts.

I appreciate that you recognize that. I'm not sure if I'm not writing clearly enough or if HN as an audience is a bit pedantic, but most comments here seem to have missed that.

Well, I really appreciate it. I'm planning to apply it in two ways specifically: Increasing my daily average step count by only 2% per week, and decreasing my daily average calories by only 1% per week. Both numbers are high enough that I think I should be able to round to whole numbers pretty well. Using the rule of 72 for some quick math, I think that means I can double my step count in 36 weeks. (I haven't figured out quite how the math works for the calories if I'm counting down, not up, but I'll get it!)

I have a strong tendency to err on the "either I jump all the way to my goal or I've failed" side and burn myself out, so I'm actually going to try to use my will power to refrain from walking more steps, or eat a couple more calories. I'm hoping it'll help drive home that I succeed in the long run when the short-term change is small.

Thanks for writing it!

Re: Lie still in bed

#219

Post by err4nt »

This strikes a chord - though I have no issue falling asleep, I totally agree with this method for moving closer toward a desired outcome.

If someday I want to play the piano effortlessly and beautifully, I should start by spending time with my fingers touching the keys. Habits can be formed slowly and as an accumulation of many positive steps in the direction toward a goal.

Re: Lie still in bed

#220

Post by senectus1 »

I've never understood why people have issues falling asleep. I just shut my eyes and tell myself its times to sleep... off i go.

My issue is that I never want to fall asleep... getting myself to actually do it rather than do something more interesting is a battle of will power.

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