Successfully updated my 10+ year old Android app to latest SDK. Of course, there are still loads of errors about deprecated function, but it seems to be working, as it is pretty simple application.
Prisoners of Google Android development
101–110 of 318 posts
Re: Prisoners of Google Android development
#102One of the reasons why I appreciated windows. Even old software would run on newer versions.
Unfortunately that also meant even old malware would run on newer versions.
Re: Prisoners of Google Android development
#103This is a problem with software culture in general. 99% of us refuse to declare an application "done". We're always working on the next iteration, over and over forever. Cramming unwanted features, changing the UI over and over, updating dependency 2.8.1 to 2.8.2 and re-building. Most of it is change for the sake of change. The app stores obviously believe in this endless treadmill, too, and enforce it: Since everyone endlessly changes their software, you, too must endlessly change your software.
If you don't believe this is a deeply ingrained culture problem, try proposing to your manager "Hey, this software is already really good and customers love it. Let's make this version the last one we release. We can work on something new." See what they say.
Re: Prisoners of Google Android development
#104This is a problem with software culture in general. 99% of us refuse to declare an application "done". We're always working on the next iteration, over and over forever. Cramming unwanted features, changing the UI over and over, updating dependency 2.8.1 to 2.8.2 and re-building. Most of it is change for the sake of change. The app stores obviously believe in this endless treadmill, too, and enforce it: Since everyon…
> If you don't believe this is a deeply ingrained culture problem, try proposing to your manager "Hey, this software is already really good and customers love it. Let's make this version the last one we release. We can work on something new." See what they say.
This description is rather an argument that this problem is deeply ingrained in management culture, and not in software culture.
Re: Prisoners of Google Android development
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree, at least on the Android side of things (Apple has long been hostile to PWAs). Installing a PWA from a website is trivially easy on Android, it's just that most users really have separated in their minds (not surprising due to history) that apps come from app stores, and the browser is used for websites. Also, Google has made in much easier in recent years to submit plain PWAs to the Play Store: https://yo…
On Android you have to pop open a menu and find the install option. That's not inherently discoverable as you need to know it's even possible, and most people don't. It would be trivial to present the user with a more proactive notification that a site can be installed as an app, or even include such a notice in their search results on Google, but they choose not to do so.
Actually nowadays it's not that bad anymore. Android browser itself offers installable PWA and there is an event called beforeinstallprompt event (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Window/befo...), which can be used to perform PWA installation on user interaction. Of course it's not supported in every browser.
iOS is more difficult since user needs to understand that "saving to home screen" is same as installing "app" and there's no way to trigger it programmatically or help user in any other way than with visual illustrations.
Re: Prisoners of Google Android development
#106I also got this email, but professionally and personally. Personally, I voluntarily built and run open source apps for 16 different cities for their transit system. This gave me two weeks to update 16 apps, for no benefit of anyone. My app is a PWA, and the Android version just uses cordova + a few plugins to add a few native options. Unfortunately, updating cordova to support the new target android api broke some of…
> I'd prefer to get rid of the app and just have users go to the website and install the PWA, but the average user still doesn't know how to do this I think you misunderstood users, it's not just ignorance. I want apps to go back in the direction of real(not cordova) apps, not some low effort web thing. Basically zero web apps match the experience of a well crafted actual app.
We love to discuss technology on here and I have my own opinions about that, but to be honest, as a user I have found absolutely no correlation between the underlying technologies and how well an app works for me.
It often hinges on seemingly small design decisions that make some frequent task either a breeze or a constant annoyance. There aren't many cases where making the right design decision depends on whether or not the code is "native".
I believe the most important distinction is whether the motivation for making an app is economically aligned with my motivation for using it and sustainably so.
It's not primarily a technology issue.
Re: Prisoners of Google Android development
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Truthfully, I'd prefer to get rid of the app and just have users go to the website and install the PWA, but the average user still doesn't know how to do this. Let's be clear: that's not because users don't know how to do it. It's because Google and Apple haven't made it as easy as installing an app from their app store. That's a choice, and it's a deliberate one.
I disagree, at least on the Android side of things (Apple has long been hostile to PWAs). Installing a PWA from a website is trivially easy on Android, it's just that most users really have separated in their minds (not surprising due to history) that apps come from app stores, and the browser is used for websites. Also, Google has made in much easier in recent years to submit plain PWAs to the Play Store: https://yo…
I have some PWAs in the Play Store via that method. I also got this same Android API update email and had to jump through various hoops to update them all. I wish I could list an actual PWA (like a URL to a website) in the Play Store and then never have to worry about Android API version updates, since I'm literally not using any Android-specific features.
Re: Prisoners of Google Android development
#108This is a problem with software culture in general. 99% of us refuse to declare an application "done". We're always working on the next iteration, over and over forever. Cramming unwanted features, changing the UI over and over, updating dependency 2.8.1 to 2.8.2 and re-building. Most of it is change for the sake of change. The app stores obviously believe in this endless treadmill, too, and enforce it: Since everyon…
> 99% of us refuse to declare an application "done".
The article is literally about how they are not allowed to declare the app "done" because google is forcing them to upgrade to a new version. I'm sure the creators of this app wish they could just never touch it again.
Re: Prisoners of Google Android development
#109I'm sorry, but this is on the developer / maintainer. Google has been putting out these warning messages for a while, and any decent Android developer should know about target SDK versions. Didn't test the app on the platform they were updating to? Didn't function test the app on a physical device that surely had on hand? Somehow this is Google's fault? I dislike the stronghold Apple and Google have as much as anyone…
Yes, not testing at all on a real device meshes nicely with their company's signature:
Solutional is an *agile* software development company
Re: Prisoners of Google Android development
#110While I concur with the author on the challenges of Android development, the author made two major mistakes. One, he didn't test his app on the latest version of Android. This a very major mistake and the reason why we keep 11 virtual machines around with all the versions of Android that our app is supported on. Two, when you release an app on Google Play, you never, never, never deploy the app to 100% of your user b…
What you're saying is totally true and the only pragmatic way to update/release. But it is a shame that if the api update compiles you can't expect things will just work the same way.