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Prisoners of Google Android development

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Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#51

Post by l72 »

I also got this email, but professionally and personally.

Personally, I voluntarily built and run open source apps for 16 different cities for their transit system. This gave me two weeks to update 16 apps, for no benefit of anyone. My app is a PWA, and the Android version just uses cordova + a few plugins to add a few native options. Unfortunately, updating cordova to support the new target android api broke some of the plugins, which haven't been updated yet, so it ended up being a full weekend of work and testing.

Truthfully, I'd prefer to get rid of the app and just have users go to the website and install the PWA, but the average user still doesn't know how to do this. And the Play Store is still the first place users go to find apps. If google would just allow submitting a PWA directly to the app store, that'd be nice... I am not looking forward to doing this yearly.

Professionally, we are also scrambling. We have a legacy app that some supported customers are still using until the end of the year. The app is a fairly complex application, and basic testing has already shown that just changing the target api version has broken quite a few things. We have gotten the extension, but we know this will take 1-2 weeks of developer time + 1-2 weeks of QA's time, for an update that does nothing but appease Google. All for an app we are going to officially remove from the store at the end of the year, once all customers transition to the new app is complete.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#52

Post by lutarezj »

l72 wrote: post #51

I also got this email, but professionally and personally. Personally, I voluntarily built and run open source apps for 16 different cities for their transit system. This gave me two weeks to update 16 apps, for no benefit of anyone. My app is a PWA, and the Android version just uses cordova + a few plugins to add a few native options. Unfortunately, updating cordova to support the new target android api broke some of…

Not sure if it helps, but if I was in your situation I’d provide a few app updates with a screen to train users on how to install the PWA version and gracefully run away from these problems. Maybe also provide a some sort of a form to get some feedback over the difficulties encountered by users to get there. Good luck!

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#54

Post by moron4hire »

denton-scratch wrote: post #33

It was always obvious that Play Stores and their captive developer "communities" were a trap. Forced API upgrades are just one aspect of that. There are certainly tasks that are best done by a phone or mobile app; usually, these are things that involve moving around, such as navigation, or depend on phone sensors, such as working out which way is "up". But nearly everything else can be done by a website. I'd hate to…

> There are certainly tasks that are best done by a phone or mobile app; usually, these are things that involve moving around, such as navigation, or depend on phone sensors, such as working out which way is "up". But nearly everything else can be done by a website.

Actually, both of those things can easily be done in a browser app.

About the only thing that can't be done easily on mobile right now is GPU compute shaders. But that will also fall when WebGPU merges from desktop browsers.

The only other thing I can think of is generic, system-wide file management. That probably won't ever be coming. Though the File System API does allow users to grant access to specific directories, I don't think the permission persists past a page reload.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#55

Post by carstenhag »

dep_b wrote: post #31
wahnfrieden wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when it was two weeks

We now push to the store twice a week. I kind of liked the older pace of once-twice per month to be honest.

Just because one can, doesn't mean that one should. We still do releases every month or so and we fight back when more frequent releases are wanted.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#56

Post by moron4hire »

pmontra wrote: post #26

> I'm not even sure why are we, as developers, allowing this to happen — there's usually not any good reason to develop mobile applications at all anymore. It's time to move back to open (web) standards and take control back into our own hands! In general yes, but if I look at the apps on my phone I have A mail client, K9, old UI. This clearly can't be replaced by a web app because I'm using it to look at my mail in…

> OSMAnd, offline maps and trop recording. Can't be web based.

There's no reason this couldn't be browser based.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#57

Post by carstenhag »

l72 wrote: post #51

I also got this email, but professionally and personally. Personally, I voluntarily built and run open source apps for 16 different cities for their transit system. This gave me two weeks to update 16 apps, for no benefit of anyone. My app is a PWA, and the Android version just uses cordova + a few plugins to add a few native options. Unfortunately, updating cordova to support the new target android api broke some of…

I have compassion with you, some of my private apps were also affected.

But we were being told this deadline for many months now. It was clear that at some point they would show it more in your face. I also disliked the way it was formulated, also, even if everything was fine in production, it complained when testing versions didn't comply (doesn't make sense).

Also, it was always only about pushing new updates (it's ever year like that). You could still keep the app live for some time.

Saying you only had two weeks is not correct.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#58

Post by regularfry »

jarm0 wrote: post #48
regularfry wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it would just not make sense to build such a robust QA. Well that's a lesson you won't need to learn twice, isn't it?

It's true that in the future I would do some more thorough testing, but never-ever for this legacy application can I build a bullet-proof automated testing solution - there will not be a budget for that for sure. However, even with a fancy solution mistakes will happen and you still can't stop release propagating. It's just a matter of time when it happens.

"A bullet-proof automated testing solution" isn't needed for the type of problem you describe. Anything that logs in (including a human on a real device) would catch it even if it does nothing else.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#59

Post by Daril »

IMHO, there are too many drawbacks to being forced to distribute an app through only one "self-authorised" app store and very few advantages.

Pros (ironically):

1. the app store manager is supposed to check the app for malware and viruses before publishing it, ironically all the apps full of Google ads, Google and Facebook trackers of any kind are welcome ...

2. make it very easy for the user to search, install and update the apps, if he can find what they are looking for through billions of game apps and very similar apps that are only published to send advertisements to the user or to collect his personal data.

Disadvantages:

1. you are tied to the whims of the app store manager

2. You have no control over the app publishing process: You cannot decide if you can publish your app or not, only the App Store Manager has the power to decide when and if it is convenient for him. I think only the user should have this right.

I'd prefer to install the native commercial native apps (for example, the home banking app) on my phone by downloading them from the developer's website, in a private area that I have to access with my credentials, where the app is GPG signed and I can check the integrity of the package. An auto-update feature is doable.

For open source apps, there is the F-Droid store where you can add your own repository (a bit technical and not for everyone, I admit : pre installing F-Droid on the new phones could help a lot, but I don't think Google will ever allow this).

Another viable option is PWA. In my opinion, there are very few apps that need the native features, for all the others, almost everything is now doable with PWA technology, and you do not have to bother sending updates to users or asking them to upgrade.

The monopolistic and commercial app stores, with the excuse of making life easier for users and in a supposedly "better security", are a "wonderful" way for Apple and Google to make billions on the work of independent developers and, in the case of Google, to collect and sell personal data about users and to sell ads of any kind in any way.

Re: Prisoners of Google Android development

#60

Post by Aulig »

These minimum SDK requirements have been known for a very long time. It's correct that the email only got sent recently, but the requirements are usually announced 2 years in advance in this manner:

After 0 days: New Android version comes out After 1 year: App Updates need to target the latest Android version After 2 years: Apps can't be downloaded on devices with the "new" Android version anymore unless they target the "new" Android version

So normally there should be plebty of time to prepare. However, if you're an indie developer or not actively maintaining the app, then it definitely is annoying, since usually the apps would work perfectly fine on the new Android version without updating the targetSdk version.

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