Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Airbnb allowing host to place cameras in the room where I would be sleeping

old.reddit.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 30 posts

Re: Airbnb allowing host to place cameras in the room where I would be sleeping

#11

Post by hgsgm »

throwaway290 wrote: post #7

I can see many issues with airbnb saying it's okay to have a camera pointing at bed but I'm trying to connect it with sex trafficking. From the keynote that she linked it's not clear. Obviously recording would be blackmail material but is the idea that airbnb owner would be a trafficker or conspire with traffickers against customer? Note that the real issue is not lack of refund but deep implications of having camera…

OP was just going off a tangent about why cameras are bad, not saying that the AirBnB would use the cameras the blackmail a prostitute/ sex slave.

> Now, am I trying to say that just by sleeping in a room with a camera I would be pulled into some sort of underground human trafficking ring? No.

Re: Airbnb allowing host to place cameras in the room where I would be sleeping

#13

Post by bee_rider »

Havoc wrote: post #4

Just go to a hotel. Airbnb isn’t cheaper and it’s no longer a unique experience either

The main advantages that these “we don’t provide a service, we provide an app to connect you to a service” companies have is that they can dodge local regulations and the don’t take the full reputation damage when they have a bad host.

There’s no way they can compete with hotel chains in terms of scale and having sorted out best practices.

Re: Airbnb allowing host to place cameras in the room where I would be sleeping

#14

Post by bee_rider »

ta20220714 wrote: post #9

Play with snakes get bitten. I believe by this time people should be aware AirBnb is a deeply unethical company whose business is built around something that has massive social costs. One the one hand I am glad to see it receiving negative attention. On the other hand, I feel the people complaining are also getting what they deserve.

Not sure when the cutoff is in your opinion, but FWIW they’d booked the place in 2022. AirBNB just apparently managed to yank the victim around for a year.

Re: Airbnb allowing host to place cameras in the room where I would be sleeping

#16

Post by trafficante »

TillE wrote: post #2

It's still crazy to me that forced arbitration is a thing. It should not be possible to sign away legal rights like that.

It seems to be absolutely everywhere now.

Currently spending the weekend packing for my first move in 5-6 years and, no exaggeration, every single new contract (lease, utilities, garbage, etc) had a forced arbitration clause.

When did these things become universally forced? I distinctly recall arbitration clauses being Big Corp Only things not too long ago - and in many cases, they allowed you to opt-out. Now it’s just a standard part of every boilerplate contract that you have to sign away your rights.

Re: Airbnb allowing host to place cameras in the room where I would be sleeping

#18

Post by GuB-42 »

Havoc wrote: post #4

Just go to a hotel. Airbnb isn’t cheaper and it’s no longer a unique experience either

Hotels are a limited option. They are perfect for a single couple, or with one or two kids.

For a single person they tend to be a bit expensive since you usually pay the price for two, and hostels, which can accommodate single travelers are not common in the US. But there are plenty of shared AirBnBs.

If, on the opposite you are traveling in a larger group (4+ adults), hotel options are again limited. You often need to split the group into distinct rooms, which is not the most friendly.

For business travel, hotels all the way, but for vacation, AirBnB often had the best options for my situation (single, traveling alone or with a group of friends) in several countries including the US.

Re: Airbnb allowing host to place cameras in the room where I would be sleeping

#19

Post by eadler »

TillE wrote: post #2

It's still crazy to me that forced arbitration is a thing. It should not be possible to sign away legal rights like that.

There are a series of awful supreme court decisions (often written by Scalia though not only) that eviscerated the right to actually use the court system.

- Southland Corp. v. Keating, 465 U.S. 1 (1984) arb applies in state courts in addition to federal

- Gilmer v. Interstate/Johnson Lane Corp. 500 U.S. 20 (1991)

- Doctor’s Associates, Inc. v. Casarotto, 517 U.S. 681 (1996)

- Green TreeFinancial Corp.-Ala. .v Randolph, 531 US 79 (2000)

- Prima Paint Corp. v. Flood & Conklin Mfg. Co., 388 US 395 (1967)

- Buckeye Check Cashing, Inc. v. Cardegna, 546 US 440 (2006)

- Rent-A-Center West v. Jackson, 561 US 63 (2010) arbitrator will determine the enforceability of the agreement

- Hall Street Associates, L.L.C. v. Mattel, Inc., 552 US 576 (2008) arb award can't be modified

- Gilmer v. Interstate/Johnson Lane Corp., 500 US 20 (1991) arb in discrimination claim

- AT&T Mobility LLC v. Concepcion, 563 U.S. 333 (2011)A class action waivers

- American Express Co. v. Italian Colors Restaurant, 570 US 228 (2013)

There have been some proposals to fix this - a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, none have passed yet.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1374

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/259...

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/senate-bill/537

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/1423

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/610

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/963

Some other useful sources if you care about the details:

1. Glover, J. M. (2022). Mass Arbitration. Stanford Law Review, 74. https://review.law.stanford.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2...

2. Katherine V.W. Stone & Alexander J.S. Colvin. (2015). The arbitration epidemic: Mandatory arbitration deprives workers and consumers of their rights (Briefing Paper 414). Economic Policy Institute. https://www.epi.org/publication/the-arbitration-epidemic/

Re: Airbnb allowing host to place cameras in the room where I would be sleeping

#20

Post by anotherhue »

> "And all my requests for discovery were denied and the hearing happened the next day. I was NOT prepared to move forward with basically nothing..."

> "We had already played recordings of me crying with customer service (embarrassing) and in order to "prove" that I was impacted by this I had to submit anxiety medications my doctor had prescribed me that I was then cross-examined on (double embarrassing)."

> They claimed they had no record of a meeting I know occurred because my friend was there but I wasn't willing to sell out my friend to "prove" it (the judge wanted to see the email I had - wasn't going to do that.)

> the hearing itself got super bogged down into the weeds of whether I had PROOF that there was a camera (reminder, I didn't because the first customer service rep told me that the hosts' acknowledgment that there was one wasn't enough).

Let's just all agree to shut down AirBnB shall we?

Post reply on HN