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66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

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Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#311

Post by speedgoose »

db48x wrote: post #292
speedgoose wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m concerned about the life priorities of such people.

You shouldn’t be. They’re different from you; get over it.

Sometimes it can be beneficial to the society to understand why some people think the way they do. Everyone is different but not everyone is right. I’m often wrong on many things and people correct me. I’m concerned about their need to get a little bit more money if they don’t have time to profit from it. I guess they don’t know that life can be better with more free time. Or they don’t enjoy free time, but that doesn’t sound healthy.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#312

Post by mmcnl »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #91
jacobgorm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I first joined a US startup, they said "you can take unlimited PTO -- we suggest starting with a week per year"... I negotiated that up to the five weeks that are standard here in Denmark.

"Unlimited PTO" is a red flag for me. It means that PTO will be governed by pressure, self-pressure and shame.

Exactly, ambiguous contractual agreements are always in favor of those with more power.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#313

Post by ballenf »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #254
throw0101b wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, I can't just get fired without cause. And if I do get laid off, I have 3 months of grace period, plus potentially years of unemployment money. Which causes companies to be very slow in hiring people, because if business turns they have less flexibility. European countries have some of the highest (youth) unemployment rates in the OECD: * https://data.oecd.org/unemp/youth-unemployment-rate.htm * https://www.oe…

> Which causes companies to be very slow in hiring people, because if business turns they have less flexibility. This is not entirely true. They are more considerate in hiring which means layoffs, including mass layoffs, happen more rarely as they have consequences. But they can fire people (and they do) when things go bad. This is one of most common reasons for firing people. What they cannot do is to fire me today…

I don't think you showed any part of the statement being untrue.

Kinda seems like you're just arguing that being very slow to hire has big advantages.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#314

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

larusso wrote: post #53

I‘ve been to the US for a long vacation (4,5 weeks or with traveltime and rest day before and after a whole month). I was able to do this because I have 35 days of vacation (a bonus program from my employer, stay more then x years and your vacation days increase. I have the maximum after 7 years) While I was traveling through south California and Arizona I dreamed how awesome it would be to live here and be able to v…

While you might be able to find a good company that offers a lot of vacation (relatively compared to other US firms), culture is ultimately the biggest roadblock for people actually taking the time they need. I've worked at many places that have "unlimited time off" but in reality people worked more on average because it can be difficult to negotiate that time off with your manager.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#315

Post by emptysongglass »

Freedom2 wrote: post #310
danaris wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, yes; because the only people we should consider in these discussions are Silicon Valley tech workers, who consider making $150k a year to be "on the low side". Do you ever give a thought to the vast majority of Americans who make less than you? Or even to the vast majority of tech workers who make less than you?

Is there any surprise in an American having such a narrow view where they only consider their own circumstances?

I'm European.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#316

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

ubercore wrote: post #66
unmole wrote: post #6

Did the survey ask if they wanted a pay cut to match European style wages?

Anecdote time, but I moved from a decent (non-FAANG) tech salary in the US to a (locally) good salary in Norway, and feel better off as a result. In outright terms my salary took a huge hit, but there are so many little things in the US that eat up your money you don't realize over time. And the difference gets even more stark if you have children.

Social mobility is also a lot higher in the Western EU. I moved with my wife to the Netherlands 3 years ago. I was working a FAANG job, I took a 30% pay cut (after factoring taxes, etc). But the flip side is that the relative salary of a global tech worker in the Netherlands is MUCH higher than the average. My wife and I now have 5 separate rental properties now and growing, something we could only dream of doing in the Bay Area unless one of us hit the startup lottery.

Of course I could have worked remotely for a similar pay cut and bought a bunch of rental properties in the Midwest or something, but instead we're living in a vibrant international city and have enough cash flow to pay our bills.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#317

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

momirlan wrote: post #12
unmole wrote: post #6

Did the survey ask if they wanted a pay cut to match European style wages?

and taxes...

As an expat who used to work in California and now works in the Netherlands, tax wise it's about the same. With the 30% ruling + a lower overall income I've actually been able to offload a lot of stock and diversify into real estate without being over taxed. So ymmv

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#318

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

Moldoteck wrote: post #147

Regardless of what you think, in the best path is being an eu citizen, work in us(some high paying job like IT) for 5-10 years, return in eu with huge cash, buy a home, work some more chill years for minimal pension and happily retire. Eu is nice to retire if you are eu citizen and have enough cash(by either working some years in us or remotely for us conpanies but a bit less pay)

This is currently what my wife and I are doing. We're both American citizens, but we're 2 years from naturalization in the Netherlands. Through rental properties we've invested in here we're super close to FIRE. I took all my FAANG bucks and invested here, I'm literally just working my job to get naturalization + partial pension

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#319

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #317
momirlan wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and taxes...

As an expat who used to work in California and now works in the Netherlands, tax wise it's about the same. With the 30% ruling + a lower overall income I've actually been able to offload a lot of stock and diversify into real estate without being over taxed. So ymmv

I've been able to leverage our FAANG bucks into a lot more real estate over here in 3 years. To get the same amount of property in the bay it would have taken me more than 10 years even making FAANG money.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#320

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

jdthedisciple wrote: post #237
apexalpha wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that bad. I make roughly €80k in the Netherlands as a medior ethical hacker. I pay 33% in taxes on that income. But that 33% includes healthcare, retirement, school, university, etc... I'm currently enjoying 20 weeks paid time off this year to spend with my newborn. Also I only work 4 days a week, on top of the 5 weeks holiday every year. I'm sure some devs in the US could also set this up for themselves and…

I'm sure it's comfortable and works for most people. To me there is just a difference between comfortable and great . > What is there to do except 'wage-slave' like this? We're just born here and make the best of it. :) To put it concisely: Becoming independent and doing what you truely want to do without having to worry about opportunity cost, monetary compensation, or societal repercussions for "wrongthink".

> Becoming independent and doing what you truely want to do without having to worry about opportunity cost, monetary compensation, or societal repercussions for "wrongthink".

Ironic considering there's very few paths to FIRE in the US (work in tech, be born rich). Whereas the average person in the EU has a safety net that "independent" people in the US have to slave for.

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