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66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

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Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#291

Post by acuozzo »

lordnacho wrote: post #157
ubercore wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote time, but I moved from a decent (non-FAANG) tech salary in the US to a (locally) good salary in Norway, and feel better off as a result. In outright terms my salary took a huge hit, but there are so many little things in the US that eat up your money you don't realize over time. And the difference gets even more stark if you have children.

This is what I don't get about the US system. You can get paid a lot of money, but it is unthinkable for someone with a good job in America to not send their kids to college, which costs a heck of a lot of money. 2.5 kids is going to cost many years of earnings to put through college, and you don't even know what amount that is since the price is flying away. In Norway you can have 10 kids and all they have to do is…

We just saddle our children with private student loan debt.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#292

Post by db48x »

speedgoose wrote: post #224
db48x wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The survey didn’t ask about “quality of life”, it asked about paid days off. Many people would rather have more money to pay for the things that they want instead of more days off. It’s as simple as that; different people weigh the value of things differently.

I’m concerned about the life priorities of such people.

You shouldn’t be. They’re different from you; get over it.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#293

Post by oliwarner »

curiousWaste wrote: post #264
panda888888 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The even crazier part is maternity leave, or the lack of it. The US government requires that women who have been at their job for more than one year get 12 weeks of unpaid time off. But many people can't afford to not be paid, so they don't take the full amount. Women who have been at their job for less than one year legally get 0 days off. Less than 25% of US women have any type of paid maternity leave.

Yet, birth rate in USA is significantly higher than in Finland for example

Quite high in Somalia too. I'd suggest there are more factors than paid maternity leave.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#294

Post by acuozzo »

It amazes me how few of these comments are about neighbors. I'm a Software Engineer as well, but most people are not.

The EU system helps ensure you're not surrounded by people made entirely miserable by their wage slavery. Who would want to be surrounded by miserable fucks?

I live in the US state with the highest median income: Maryland. I feel lucky to have pursued a career here because I didn't grow up here and I didn't know much about Maryland beforehand.

I now feel as though I couldn't live elsewhere within the US. I was surrounded by exhausted, overworked, miserable people growing up in NJ and I see so much less misery here even though I interact with people from many different socioeconomic backgrounds; up and down the ladder.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#295

Post by jimmydddd »

lionkor wrote: post #4

> While the average American is lucky to get 11 vacation days WHAT? Does that count sick days as well, or is that a myth? Here in Germany, I get 30 vacation days per calendar year, plus any sick days, and thats fairly normal. Edit: Sure the absolute salaries here are lower, but the cost of living is vastly different and the social support structures and healthcare are different, too. That should definitely be kept in…

And in the US they have a new racket that's even worse. They provide "unlimited paid time off." However, it has to all be approved by your manager. So now, instead of saying "I still have three PTO days left for this year, so I guess I'll take them this week," you have to beg your manager, so in reality, people end up taking fewer days.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#296

Post by [deleted] »

quonn wrote: post #99
rpadovani wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhm, what? If you live with your parents, and the university is free, where does that number come from? And if you don't live with your parents, you live with others students, spending 600-1000 euro month for living, how do you reach that numbers?

Bachelor + Masters is 10 semesters usually. 1000 * 12 * 5 = 60.000. Well in the range that I quoted. And depending on the city the actual costs can be more.

[deleted]

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#297

Post by sassy_quat »

pjmlp wrote: post #248
unmole wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because it's not like there are FAAG development centres or a home grown startup ecosystem in India. Oh, wait. The fact that you work with WITCH companies says more about your situation than anything else, TBH.

Right, because it's not like there are FAAG development centres or a home grown startup ecosystem in Europe. Oh, wait. The fact that you have expressed prejudice against people in WITCH companies says more about your situation than anything else, TBH.

[dead]

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#298

Post by danaris »

quonn wrote: post #146
maccard wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comparison is completely wrong. Not getting into specifics of rental prices, or student eating/socialising habits, > Tuition at that time was 500 per semester for me This is the number people talk about when they're talking about tuition costs for Americans. Everyone needs shelter and to eat, whether they're a student or an engineer at a FAANG. It's $5-10k fo r community college depending on in or out of state.…

The comment I replied to did not mention tuition costs. The claim was that incomes can be low because there is not cost for letting students study. And the costs are absolutely there. The fact that some of the best US universities have outrageous tuition is neither new nor surprising nor does it invalidate my claim. I drew no comparison to the US, you are drawing that comparison.

> The comment I replied to did not mention tuition costs.

It absolutely did:

> Tuition was 500 EUR per semester, so around 80 EUR/month.

Possibly it was edited in after you wrote your comment, but it's there clear as day.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#299

Post by paulmd »

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #174
quonn wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents have to pay for university in Europe unless they are poor. And while there are no fees, the costs are typically between 30k and 100k per child. edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. edit2: Someone said this comment could be interpreted as the cost per year which is not the case. This is the total cost.

In Sweden you get a student loan and a grant to pay for housing, food, transport etc from CSN. [1] The grant is about 1/3 of the total sum. I studied at university and my parents paid nothing. Even as an adult student could I go back and get the grant part. In Sweden the state pays for you to study. [1] https://www.csn.se/languages/english/student-grants-and-loan...

And this is in fact a good thing because the state benefits from higher tax revenue as a result of a skilled workforce.

The American obsession with making children pay their own way for everything is counterproductive at a social level and frankly revealing (and sickening) in terms of what it says about us as a people. God forbid someone (a literal child!) “gets something for nothing”.

This is really the core problem with America: a significant chunk of the population is literally mean and cruel and antisocial, in the sense that they oppose the idea of helping others as a concept in itself. People will search for reasons to justify their inherent belief that it should not be done. In fact in many cases they will actively promote cruel and counterproductive policies because it makes them feel better!

And as a result there's really not a single social system in america that is not rotted to the core even if it exists. Social Security is an insane mess to be on. Programs like food stamps are thrown to the states who underfund them in the best of cases, and in many times actually sabotage or deliberately shrink them, even when it results in receiving less money for the programs. That's the goal!

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#300

Post by flashgordon »

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #254
throw0101b wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, I can't just get fired without cause. And if I do get laid off, I have 3 months of grace period, plus potentially years of unemployment money. Which causes companies to be very slow in hiring people, because if business turns they have less flexibility. European countries have some of the highest (youth) unemployment rates in the OECD: * https://data.oecd.org/unemp/youth-unemployment-rate.htm * https://www.oe…

> Which causes companies to be very slow in hiring people, because if business turns they have less flexibility. This is not entirely true. They are more considerate in hiring which means layoffs, including mass layoffs, happen more rarely as they have consequences. But they can fire people (and they do) when things go bad. This is one of most common reasons for firing people. What they cannot do is to fire me today…

  Talent in Australia etc is just as awesome and doesn't burn itself out while being productive.  Having sane and "fair" working conditions goes a long way.
I was having a conversation with a senior director about 5 years ago about why not opening an office in Sydney. Plus points being high levels of professionalism and reasonable TC (stock comp being unheard off at the time). His retort was well if stock is not there people won't be incentivized. For folks talking about meaning and impact I was shocked how he couldn't fathom the idea that may be people just wanna do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay! Oh well
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