121–130 of 147 posts
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> Von Braun was a Nazi spy He came to the US after the war in Europe was over. Pretty difficult to spy on behalf of a political regime that no longer exists. If he was spying for anyone - which I don’t think has ever been seriously alleged, let alone proven - it would’ve been the USSR.
Until the mid 60s it was the USSR that was leading the space race
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I am not a lawyer so who is going to look for these imaginary refugees who didn’t apply for a job because they were discouraged by the wrongly-set job ad? Will the DOJ somehow come up with an estimation of the number of people affected?
Read the complaint. There were specific instances of job applicants being turned away because of this imaginary law. If the DoJ wins the suit, they’ll require SpaceX to look back through their records and put together a full list.
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It does not mean they are moral, it means it's more likely they are moral because they know more (know to check their sources, follow the money, less susceptible to conspiracy theories etc) and also they due to being smart don't need to worry as much about financial security or where their next meal comes from and can worry about higher things Working on lunar landing is great but when you have the smarts to see that…
Knowledge does not confer morality. Highly intelligent people are very good at finding reasons to believe the ends will justify any means. Von Braun was happy to use jewish slave labor to develop his rockets. He thought that humanity going to space was important enough to justify that.
Knowledge does not magically make you moral, knowledge "just" makes it more possible to become and act moral. There may be exceptions that prove the rule..,
Maybe Von Braun was a dick, I don't know that story, but some factory worker in Crapovsk with no degree who needs to make money to feed family every day can't just decide to leave the country even if he is moral, and is more likely to be immoral by ignorance of real events by watching one sided and misleading account on TV. He has no CPU left to wonder abstract things like whether the government is bombing civilians far away and he only speaks one language in which 80% of info says "no they don't". No scientific community will stand up for him if he goes to jail for protesting war. Maybe he would not mind to emigrate for economical reasons, sure. But as a rule of thumb rocket scientist over in Moscow with fancy credentials has means and ways to think about higher values than money and leave if conscience says so.
All the private companies have the right make their own choices.
On the other end of the spectrum of that argument: “we hire white people only” I’m sure you can see this can become a problem. EDIT: why the downvote? You are either for total freedom (including that one) or against (so then you need to draw a line). What’s it gonna be?
DOJ needs to sue themselves!
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I just can’t … roflmao … the irony is too much
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Yeah... But spaceX does have to face the consequences if one of them ends up being a foreign intelligence asset. Seems like a reasonable precaution to me considering the stakes. Besides, they have the largest applicant pool of any company in the country. It's completely reasonable to believe this is purely a consequence of meritocracy and not even a conscious choice.
how much secret information is SpaceX really getting from the federal government? probably near nothing
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Yes it is extremely difficult and expensive but thats besides the point, what I'm getting at here is its unworkable/unfeasible. You will inevitably break ITAR, this is why most companies under ITAR (& gov agencies like NASA: https://www.nasa.gov/careers/working-with-nasa ) does exactly what SpaceX is being prosecuted (persecuted) for. This is a cut and dry case of political persecution. Not only was this practice not…
> You will inevitably break ITAR, this is why most companies under ITAR (& gov agencies like NASA: https://www.nasa.gov/careers/working-with-nasa ) does exactly what SpaceX is being prosecuted (persecuted) for. NASA employees are in civil service, not the private sector; there are different rules.
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Every company that has to follow ITAR does this. Its simply not feasible to determine and continuously monitor the legibility of asylees and refugees. Set aside how expensive it will be, you will inevitably end up breaking ITAR laws which is significantly worse.
It's... not expensive at all? Companies don't do their own investigations. The FBI does them, and they charge the same rate for everyone. If the clearance application fee is what's going to break your company, you've got some bigger problems. I've worked for several DoD contractors. The question on the job application is "is there anything that would prevent you from obtaining a clearance?" It's not "are you a citize…
> "is there anything that would prevent you from obtaining a clearance?"
If SpaceX asked that, it would be even easier for govies to prosecute them, because very few of SpaceX employees actually need clearance, and you cannot require clearance eligibility if you don't actually plan to clear them and have them work on cleared work. You are confusing ITAR regulations with classification regime, and these two are wholly separate things.
> Export controlled information is Controlled, Unclassified Information (CUI).
It's not, how could it possibly be? CUI is labelling the government bodies put on stuff. ITAR and EAR covers stuff regardless of whether the government had anything to do with it. For example, if you work as a hobby on software to model nuclear bomb explosions, you'd better not show it your colleagues on H1B, as it's covered by ITAR. It's not CUI, because no govie has slapped CUI on it.
Meanwhile: https://www.nasa.gov/careers/working-with-nasa Other than extremely rare exceptions, you must be a U.S. citizen in order to work for NASA as a civil service employee.
Hat tip. Good share. Serious question: Are there and well known examples of these exceptions? I cannot believe that anyone with exclusively Five Eyes citizenships would not be accepted.