Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

cnbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 353 posts

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#271

Post by danaris »

emptysongglass wrote: post #215
maccard wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While all the sentences you wrote are technically correct, your point is wrong. > you'll be working right up until our government mandated retirement age As will an american, unless they're going to go without healthcare? Unless you're doing some _wild_ saving, paying for health insurance as you age is going to necessitate working. Health insurance for a couple (assuming you can get it and it covers anything that you…

You don't need to do _wild_ savings to retire at an age where you can enjoy your health in the US, as a tech worker. Cost of living is skyrocketing where in the US and to what degree higher than its EU equivalent? The EU has borne the brunt of inflation so I'm having a hard time seeing where EU citizens are paying less to live than Americans. > The horror. Personally, I'll take stagnant economic growth over statistic…

Ah, yes; because the only people we should consider in these discussions are Silicon Valley tech workers, who consider making $150k a year to be "on the low side".

Do you ever give a thought to the vast majority of Americans who make less than you? Or even to the vast majority of tech workers who make less than you?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#273

Post by bitcharmer »

nxm wrote: post #82
cloogshicer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

Salaries are lower and taxes are significantly higher. Take your pick, but I’d rather take the American approach of a more dynamic job market. I wouldn’t want to deal with low GDP growth, public strikes (see France) and little ability to build wealth.

> Take your pick

I guess this is what it really boils down to. Here in Europe we don't have to establish college funds, go bankrupt because of a heart disease, become homeless due to being out of work or get our kids shot in a primary school. We prefer to take a less materialistic approach to life and priorities at the cost of not being so fixated on "wealth".

Americans are just built differently

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#274

Post by bitcharmer »

flohofwoe wrote: post #193
nxm wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salaries are lower and taxes are significantly higher. Take your pick, but I’d rather take the American approach of a more dynamic job market. I wouldn’t want to deal with low GDP growth, public strikes (see France) and little ability to build wealth.

> I wouldn’t want to deal with low GDP growth, public strikes (see France) and little ability to build wealth. Have you ever been personally affected by something as abstract as "low GDP growth"? Or public strikes except maybe a bit of inconvenience? And what do you need "wealth" for except to reduce financial risks that are much lower in a civilized country to begin with?

[flagged]

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#275

Post by shrimp_emoji »

pjmlp wrote: post #248
unmole wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, because it's not like there are FAAG development centres or a home grown startup ecosystem in India. Oh, wait. The fact that you work with WITCH companies says more about your situation than anything else, TBH.

Right, because it's not like there are FAAG development centres or a home grown startup ecosystem in Europe. Oh, wait. The fact that you have expressed prejudice against people in WITCH companies says more about your situation than anything else, TBH.

What are WITCH companies?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#276

Post by bitcharmer »

EoinB wrote: post #142

I was born and educated in Scotland, worked in the UK for a decade or so, then moved to the US and worked for big tech for 15 years while living in the US and becoming a US citizen. I then chose to move back to Scotland, where I continue to work for the same US big tech company but get paid UK wages with UK employment benefits. So, I've lived significant portions of my life on both sides. Here in the UK, I get 29 day…

Thanks for sharing your experience. I like how you put it. To me American culture is a bit too obsessed with wealth and their economy operates in a very dehumanised way. I'd never want my children to grow up with such "values" around them.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#277

Post by tasuki »

morbia wrote: post #132
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Unlimited PTO" is a red flag for me. It means that PTO will be governed by pressure, self-pressure and shame.

Exactly, I got into quite a heated discussion with a company that offered me a job with "unlimited PTO". They wanted me to sign in the contract with a clause along the lines of "you have unlimited PTO within reason". The whole point of contracts is that you have to explicitly define what is deemed "reasonable". I insisted they put a number to it and they refused. Needless to say, I didn't accept the job in the end.

Eh I also wouldn't take that job. But why, really? If you're used to 35 days of PTO, and you take the same 35 days off at your new job, who are they to claim that whatever you're used to is unreasonable?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#278

Post by shrimp_emoji »

jakewins wrote: post #63
lionkor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the US salary hold up against the benefits you get in a well-off EU country? Namely free healthcare, automatic payments into pension fund, strong social system if you're ever in trouble, etc.? It seems to me that, as high as US salaries are, they arent that much higher compared to European salaries when you factor all this in, plus the face that a month of that work youre paid for youre OOO

I think you can do this math yourself pretty fast: US median software eng salary is about $170k/yr, German one is $80. Both will include full health benefits etc. With 5 weeks paid vacation in DE and 2 weeks in US, that would be $170k for 50 weeks if work vs $80k for 47 weeks. Not counting US taxes being lower and looking only at gross pay, that’s about $1.7K/week in DE vs $3.4K/week in the US. So after correcting fo…

The median is $120k. https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/software-develope...

And that's selecting for a particularly senior role. Most people are what that site calls "computer programmers", whose median is $93k.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#279

Post by bitcharmer »

veave wrote: post #164
kramerger wrote: post #14

It has been shown that you need around 14 days of interrupted rest to recover from stress etc. The European laws are not some random thing we made up because we are lazy. It is to ensure workers are well rested and ready for a new working year. Hence in long term it will also benefit employers. Some personal anecdata: I notice an immediate difference when I come back after a long vacation. The first 2-3 months I work…

>The European laws are not some random thing we made up because we are lazy. It is to ensure workers are well rested and ready for a new working year. If that was true Europe would have the highest productivity of the world, but it doesn't.

[flagged]

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#280

Post by 93po »

Mordisquitos wrote: post #267
apexalpha wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't run out of sick days, if you're sick you're sick. You just run out of paid sick days. The employer will just drop you.

Do you mean "drop you" as in stop paying for you while you're off sick? Or is it "drop you" as in simply show you (an emailed picture of) the door and terminate your employment? Both sound bad to me, but I can to a certain extent understand the logic behind the first option in terms of the financial interests of the company. I can definitely see a "Sorry Ashley, you're out of paid sick days so we won't be paying your…

Yes, if you have an illness that takes you well beyond available paid sick days (usually around 5 to 10 days a year depending on employer), it is common that you will be fired and lose your job entirely. Some workplaces are more compassionate than others but not many

When this happens you lose your insurance too, usually at the end of the month. You can pay around $800-1200 a month to keep it though, more if there’s a spouse or kids

Post reply on HN