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Uncle Sam accuses SpaceX of not considering asylees and refugees for employment

theregister.com

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Re: Uncle Sam accuses SpaceX of not considering asylees and refugees for employment

#101

Post by rafram »

mgiannopoulos wrote: post #56
tpmx wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the DOJ's complaint. Seems to me like it could become quite expensive. https://www.justice.gov/media/1311656/dl?inline THEREFORE, Complainant respectfully requests: ... Order SpaceX to hire applicants who were victims of the discriminatory practices alleged in this Complaint and were qualified for employment; Order SpaceX to pay back pay, including interest, and all other relief available to each individual disc…

I am not a lawyer so who is going to look for these imaginary refugees who didn’t apply for a job because they were discouraged by the wrongly-set job ad? Will the DOJ somehow come up with an estimation of the number of people affected?

Read the complaint. There were specific instances of job applicants being turned away because of this imaginary law. If the DoJ wins the suit, they’ll require SpaceX to look back through their records and put together a full list.

Re: Uncle Sam accuses SpaceX of not considering asylees and refugees for employment

#103

Post by throwaway2037 »

DOJ will win. This case looks simple to win. SpaceX will likely get a slap on the wrist, a few million dollar fine, and importantly, change their hiring practices. More exciting would be someone blogging/interviewing after getting a job at SpaceX with this special visa status. I like how barista was one of the jobs used as an example. That seems like a good role for someone who has limited language skills upon arrival as a refugee/asylee. I am sure Starbucks has training manuals in at least 50 different languages!

Re: Uncle Sam accuses SpaceX of not considering asylees and refugees for employment

#104

Post by throwaway290 »

Detrytus wrote: post #97
throwaway290 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are smart enough to be a rocket scientist you are more likely to be smart enough to see when your country is being ruled by thieves and going to the dogs. Either you hide it and leave ASAP, you don't hide it and try to change your country for the better (= jail, regime doesn't like people like that) or you suppress your conscience (or not have it) and enjoy a nice lifestyle. The last option is more rare becaus…

>> The last option is more rare because smart people are less susceptible to propaganda This is actually bullshit, you can easily manipulate smart person, by appealing to their perceived smartness :) Anyway, just because someone is smart does not mean that they are also highly moral. It's often like: give a person opportunity for professional growth ("you'll be working on our moon landing program") and they will sell…

It does not mean they are moral, it means it's more likely they are moral because they know more (know to check their sources, follow the money, less susceptible to conspiracy theories etc) and also they due to being smart don't need to worry as much about financial security or where their next meal comes from and can worry about higher things

Working on lunar landing is great but when you have the smarts to see that all your work ultimately props up the thieving violent elites you have to think about your values and whether you'd enjoy to work on lunar landing in a democratic country more

Re: Uncle Sam accuses SpaceX of not considering asylees and refugees for employment

#106

Post by rafram »

INTPenis wrote: post #44

Uh what? How is this a problem? I work for a large telco in a former socialist country, where the telco is still 51% owned by the government. We have projects that require you to be a national citizen, and pass a security check of course. They're building SPACE ROCKETS. I would imagine even tighter security.

Building rockets doesn’t require citizenship in the US. Refugees and asylees are eligible for employment at SpaceX under US law, but SpaceX falsely claimed that they weren’t. That’s illegal. You can have your own take on what the law should say, but excluding a class of people that the law allows to work for you is illegal discrimination.

Re: Uncle Sam accuses SpaceX of not considering asylees and refugees for employment

#107

Post by throwaway2037 »

bell-cot wrote: post #22

Reaction I: This story is only newsworthy "because SpaceX". Reaction II: The statements by the DoJ ("can't discriminate against") and Elan ("at least a green card to be hired") may both be correct...from their respective PoV's: The DoJ is technically right on the law. Vs. Elan knows that any asylees or refugees he hires will, over time, be 100X the legal and security grief that SpaceX has with green cards and citizen…

    Elan knows that any asylees or refugees he hires will, over time, be 100X the legal and security grief that SpaceX has with green cards and citizens
Hiring managers who wish to discriminate against physically disabled applicants (and women!) often use the same flawed reasoning. I am glad those laws exist to protect those groups!

Re: Uncle Sam accuses SpaceX of not considering asylees and refugees for employment

#108

Post by throwaway2037 »

tpmx wrote: post #6

Meanwhile: https://www.nasa.gov/careers/working-with-nasa Other than extremely rare exceptions, you must be a U.S. citizen in order to work for NASA as a civil service employee.

Hat tip. Good share. Serious question: Are there and well known examples of these exceptions? I cannot believe that anyone with exclusively Five Eyes citizenships would not be accepted.

Re: Uncle Sam accuses SpaceX of not considering asylees and refugees for employment

#109

Post by nullc »

Hm. This is a normal practice for companies that do mostly ITAR work.

See also NASA: https://www.nasa.gov/careers/working-with-nasa

"Other than extremely rare exceptions, you must be a U.S. citizen in order to work for NASA as a civil service employee."

You can google up similar examples at other contractors that mostly do ITAR work. When there are exceptions its mostly in the form of alternative facilities in other countries (which usually require you to be a citizen of those countries).

Re: Uncle Sam accuses SpaceX of not considering asylees and refugees for employment

#110

Post by chr1 »

thefounder wrote: post #30
subroutine wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or at least the refugees who are well qualified rocket scientists.

Yeah, these from Iran, North Korea, China and Russia should get hired first.

To be fair among people with appropriate qualification, there are many more americans who think USA is an "evil capitalistic empire" than immigrants who would support in any way the country they have escaped from.

Also Soviets got lot's of technologies from communist sympathizers in US, but in the end that did not help them much.

So letting SpaceX to handle its trade secrets the way it wants, and hire whomever it wants, is the best way to go.

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