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66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

cnbc.com

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Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#181

Post by ohgodplsno »

nxm wrote: post #82
cloogshicer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

Salaries are lower and taxes are significantly higher. Take your pick, but I’d rather take the American approach of a more dynamic job market. I wouldn’t want to deal with low GDP growth, public strikes (see France) and little ability to build wealth.

> public strikes (see France)

You mean the ones that are getting ignored and violently repressed with police behavior that Iran considers overly violent ? Don't worry, we're getting to the American approach of a job market: work, or die.

> little ability to build wealth.

France is the third country in the world with the most millionaires.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#182

Post by arepublicadoceu »

veave wrote: post #164
kramerger wrote: post #14

It has been shown that you need around 14 days of interrupted rest to recover from stress etc. The European laws are not some random thing we made up because we are lazy. It is to ensure workers are well rested and ready for a new working year. Hence in long term it will also benefit employers. Some personal anecdata: I notice an immediate difference when I come back after a long vacation. The first 2-3 months I work…

>The European laws are not some random thing we made up because we are lazy. It is to ensure workers are well rested and ready for a new working year. If that was true Europe would have the highest productivity of the world, but it doesn't.

> If that was true Europe would have the highest productivity of the world, but it doesn't.

Maybe productivity should not be the metric we should strive for?

I lived/worked in the US and Europe and my quality of life and overall happiness was way higher in Europe even if my salary was higher in the US.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#183

Post by maccard »

refurb wrote: post #18
cpursley wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair question. I think many Americans in higher income brackets would say yes; it’s just that they’d never had the option. Ditto on a 4 day work week.

Americans with higher incomes likely have very good vacation policies. I get 25 days per year.

I get 25, plus 8 bank holidays, plus an office closure for 10 days (which is technically 7 because there's 3 bank holidays during that time period) during the holiday period, and we closed for a week during Summer this year too.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#184

Post by ChatGTP »

cynicalsecurity wrote: post #3

As much as I like my vacations, I would rather prefer US salary over it.

Of course you're probably on a great salary but imagine a single mother who would like to have time to spend with her children, I bet she'd like 4 weeks off a year to spend with them and have some time for herself to recover?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#185

Post by jtwaleson »

catboybotnet wrote: post #81
unmole wrote: post #6

Did the survey ask if they wanted a pay cut to match European style wages?

If pay is the only concern, why not just take up contract work and refuse benefits to get the most pay? Ignoring the other variables at play, such as cost of living and benefits, and only focusing on pay is foolish.

I switched to freelance earlier this year and now make 6x compared to before. Granted, I was underpaid for the market because I was CTO in a small startup.

Contract work is for when you can take the risks. You also need to have a good network and be able to sell yourself so you have a steady stream of work. Finding new work takes considerable time which you should factor in.

I personally love the freedom right now, but I’m using this as an in-between period until I discover what I really want to focus on.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#186

Post by flohofwoe »

emptysongglass wrote: post #110
cloogshicer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

Salaries are so much lower than our American counterparts you'll be working right up until our government mandated retirement age, which is increasing. Our economic growth across the EU is stagnant. These are not things to be celebrated.

Even in my poor East German home village I know plenty of people with entirely normal jobs who retired early (mid-50's to 60). But TBH what's the point of early retirement if you are still physically and mentally fit, like your job and enjoy working with people you have known for decades?

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#187

Post by thiht »

veave wrote: post #164
kramerger wrote: post #14

It has been shown that you need around 14 days of interrupted rest to recover from stress etc. The European laws are not some random thing we made up because we are lazy. It is to ensure workers are well rested and ready for a new working year. Hence in long term it will also benefit employers. Some personal anecdata: I notice an immediate difference when I come back after a long vacation. The first 2-3 months I work…

>The European laws are not some random thing we made up because we are lazy. It is to ensure workers are well rested and ready for a new working year. If that was true Europe would have the highest productivity of the world, but it doesn't.

> If that was true Europe would have the highest productivity of the world, but it doesn't.

Depends on how you measure productivity. Per hours worked, the top 10 most productive countries is almost only European. Per capita the results are different.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#188

Post by jakewins »

Moldoteck wrote: post #149
jakewins wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All US full time positions include health insurance, the insurance included with a good software job is, in my experience, miles and miles better than the one I now get in Scandinavia.

The question is would you keep the job and as consequence the insurance if you get seriously ill?

The disability insurance that was included with my US job was significantly better than the one I have now.

If I was let go I would retain health coverage through COBRA.

Let’s be clear: The US health system is a shit show, it’s just not - mostly - one that impacts high salaried employees (if it did it would have changed long ago..)

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#189

Post by ohgodplsno »

Teever wrote: post #69
quonn wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parents have to pay for university in Europe unless they are poor. And while there are no fees, the costs are typically between 30k and 100k per child. edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. edit2: Someone said this comment could be interpreted as the cost per year which is not the case. This is the total cost.

Tuiton in France is $500-600 USD/year for any European citizen. And degrees are only 3 years in France.

> And degrees are only 3 years in France.

Uh, no, France follows the European-wide bachelor's master's doctorate system when it comes to granting european credits. Which means that, yes, you can follow the normal cycle of 3 years (license/bachelor's), 5 years (masters), 7 years (doctorage), and these will basically count if you're looking to study abroad.

Some of my coworkers have 2 years of studies (IUT/BTS). Some have 4 (M1). Some of the PhDs in my company have 9 years, other 11, others are both working and researching at the same time. There's no mandatory 3 years.

Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work

#190

Post by lordnacho »

nxm wrote: post #82
cloogshicer wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…

Salaries are lower and taxes are significantly higher. Take your pick, but I’d rather take the American approach of a more dynamic job market. I wouldn’t want to deal with low GDP growth, public strikes (see France) and little ability to build wealth.

It seems like Europe is optimized lower-percentile outcomes, whereas the US is optimized for things going smoothly.

In the US if things go as planned, you have a house, two cars, health insurance, and you can pay for college for your kids. If they don't go well you can be in real trouble depending on what exactly went wrong.

In Europe if they don't go as planned, you still have access to housing and healthcare, and your kids can still get a degree. If things go as planned, you are paying for the people who weren't so lucky.

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