Did the survey ask if they wanted a pay cut to match European style wages?
and taxes...
Americans do love their taxes. They still take a cut even if you live and work overseas.
66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work
111–120 of 353 posts
Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Parents have to pay for university in Europe unless they are poor. And while there are no fees, the costs are typically between 30k and 100k per child. edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. edit2: Someone said this comment could be interpreted as the cost per year which is not the case. This is the total cost.
> edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. I am also there and I didn't pay any monies anywhere for university(unless you mean fancy private university?). All state universities are free and we only paid some misely amount every 6 months for the city-ticket(free access to all public transport in the city, cool stuff). Also, state pays each child ~125/month until they are 25. I believe you…
I'm sure that the GP comment referred to total costs, not just tuition. Cost of living in a German city for 5-6 years can definitely add up to 30k-100k. Note that the costs of attendance typically cited by US schools similarly include cost of living, e.g. housing and meals (e.g. [0]).
[0] https://sfs.mit.edu/undergraduate-students/the-cost-of-atten...
Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work
#113It has been shown that you need around 14 days of interrupted rest to recover from stress etc. The European laws are not some random thing we made up because we are lazy. It is to ensure workers are well rested and ready for a new working year. Hence in long term it will also benefit employers. Some personal anecdata: I notice an immediate difference when I come back after a long vacation. The first 2-3 months I work…
In Germany it is actually mandated by law that you take two consecutive weeks of vacation in a year!
Never heard that before.
I know this to be true in Switzerland, and only in banking. Where it has to do with detecting fraud in your absence.
Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work
#114> While the average American is lucky to get 11 vacation days WHAT? Does that count sick days as well, or is that a myth? Here in Germany, I get 30 vacation days per calendar year, plus any sick days, and thats fairly normal. Edit: Sure the absolute salaries here are lower, but the cost of living is vastly different and the social support structures and healthcare are different, too. That should definitely be kept in…
Also, I'm amazed at the very idea of having a specific number of available sick days which I understand is the standard in the US. How on Earth is that something that is expected to be planned and accounted for by the employee? How can one "run out of" sick days? How do I see stories about US workers "donating" their unused sick leave days to a colleague with cancer or other long illness?
I'm too lazy to look up the details, but here in Spain the rules are something like no pay for the first 1–3 days of continued sick leave (if not a work accident, in which case you are paid from day 1), followed by a partial payment per day off (40% of base rate?) with gradual increase as the sick leave is prolonged (15 days maybe?) with the payment being gradually reimbursed to the employer by Social Security, I think up to 75% of the employee's base rate. Businesses may of course choose to top it up from their own purse.
Other than the business legitimately suspecting abuse of sick leave, the only special case breaks into effect when sick leave exceeds 365 continuous days, at which point long-term disability may be considered.
I cannot say how dystopic the idea of having limited sick days sounds to me. I am someone who very rarely gets sick, so I very rarely need to call in sick, but I simply know I am protected if I need to as a basic right. And some years ago I did have to make use of it unexpectedly (of course!).
Through no fault of my own I was involved in a traffic accident over a weekend which resulted in, among other minor injuries, a severe traumatic brain injury which could have killed me or left me disabled if it weren't for the emergency brain surgery I received. I spent a week in the ICU, another week in the main hospital wing, months of rehabilitation, and around 10 months of "sick leave" until I was able to work again. I was decently paid this whole period and at no point did I have to worry about losing my job (nor about "medical bills" of course!), being able to fully focus on myself and making a full recovery. I can only imagine how awful it could have been had I not had these basic protective rights as a worker and a citizen.
Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work
#115It has been shown that you need around 14 days of interrupted rest to recover from stress etc. The European laws are not some random thing we made up because we are lazy. It is to ensure workers are well rested and ready for a new working year. Hence in long term it will also benefit employers. Some personal anecdata: I notice an immediate difference when I come back after a long vacation. The first 2-3 months I work…
How long is that long term because there aren't that many great European companies.
There are companies in Europe that are older than the US. I do sincerely think that “long term” is a viable time frame when talking about European companies. When companies grow too large the often fold. So size is not a good measure of long term sustainability.
Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Exactly. I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy. Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€. Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for hea…
Parents have to pay for university in Europe unless they are poor. And while there are no fees, the costs are typically between 30k and 100k per child. edit: In Germany. I‘m German and I have studied there. I should know. edit2: Someone said this comment could be interpreted as the cost per year which is not the case. This is the total cost.
By your logic then this is also "the cost of having a job."
Nobody discusses costs like this.
Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can have private medical insurance or retirement funds on top of that. One does not exclude the other. In fact, most employers offer that as part of your benefits What you refer to is basically lowest level safety net.
Walkable cities, better culture, etc. Not just safety net
Many cities in the US are walkable and have any kind of culture you want. It’s weird when people paint the US with such a broad brush; it is far more diverse than any single European country.
The city I live in now has about four dozen restaurants within a mile of my home and is perfectly fine to walk in. Granted, there are more parking lots in that radius than I would prefer, but overall it is walkable. The city I lived in before that had fewer parking lots and a better street grid, making it more walkable still.
Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
When I first joined a US startup, they said "you can take unlimited PTO -- we suggest starting with a week per year"... I negotiated that up to the five weeks that are standard here in Denmark.
"Unlimited PTO" is a red flag for me. It means that PTO will be governed by pressure, self-pressure and shame.
Also you do not get paid for leave you have accrued when you are terminated or quit.
Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work
#119> While the average American is lucky to get 11 vacation days WHAT? Does that count sick days as well, or is that a myth? Here in Germany, I get 30 vacation days per calendar year, plus any sick days, and thats fairly normal. Edit: Sure the absolute salaries here are lower, but the cost of living is vastly different and the social support structures and healthcare are different, too. That should definitely be kept in…
> I feel vacation days are just a basic requirement for happiness, whereas being rich maybe isnt
Not only that, they are a requirement to make a good worker, that consequently make a good company. If you burn out your employees you fall behind schedule pretty quickly, so you have to rely on high turnover, which isn't a great option either.
Take the example of Japan
With a new law taking effect in April 2019 requiring employees who are due 10 days or more of paid vacation to take at least five days off per year
Working too much can have tremendous social consequences
Japan has long had a reputation for being one of the most overworked countries in the world. The term karoshi, or death by overwork, emerged in the 1990s when an increasing number of Japanese professionals were dying from heart attacks and strokes. Recent years have seen an epidemic of suicide, in part because of work-related stress: of 30,000 suicides in 2011, 10,000 were believed to be related to overwork, according to the police.
Re: 66% of Americans say they want extended European-style vacation policies at work
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
For Germany: "Free" as in waiting for months to get an appointment with a specialist? "Pension fund" as in gigantic ponzi scheme that requires 30% of the state‘s yearly budget, with no party having any kind of plan how to save the system? "Strong social system" as in being taken advantage of with the world‘s second highest taxes? Sure, I’d rather be super poor in Europe than in the US. But anybody above the poorest,…
> "Pension fund" as in gigantic ponzi scheme that requires 30% of the state‘s yearly budget Why is that a problem? At macro scale you can't really save money. As long as the pension payouts are somewhat balanced to pay ins each year it is kinda fine.
It is a problem once the ratio of money in to money out diverges from previous projections, such as due to unbudgeted increases in proportions of non working and/or lower earning populations.
Then you have to start adjusting the money in (higher taxes) and money out (reduced benefits), and different people in different ages/income/wealth levels start having different opinions.