Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Fewer university students are studying Mandarin

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 128 posts

Re: Fewer university students are studying Mandarin

#21

Post by diego_moita »

rcme wrote: post #12
diego_moita wrote: post #8

Easy: 10 years ago Western companies though they could and should make businesses in China. Today, even many Chinese companies believe that China is not a good place for making business (e.g: AliBaba, Ever Grande, Country Garden, Tencent, etc). Slightly off-topic: about 15 years ago Golman Sachs would say that the BRICS were the next countries to become rich. Guess what... Brazil and South Africa reverted back to its…

China did become rich though.

No, it didn't. Look at the concept of "Middle Income Trap"[0]. It describes China very well.

[0] : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_income_trap

Re: Fewer university students are studying Mandarin

#22

Post by kragen »

version_five wrote: post #2

It's sad, I think people wanting to learn a language represents some kind of hope, and 10 years ago we were overall bullish on increased international collaboration. Now things have become way more insular, a future of international collaboration between superpowers seems way less likely. It's really sad.

10 years ago was still the sole-superpower epoch

Re: Fewer university students are studying Mandarin

#23

Post by jncfhnb »

fn-mote wrote: post #9

I can't understand this impulse. It seems blindingly clear to me that the international influence of China is rising and will continue to rise, and the need for Mandarin-English bilingual work will continue to skyrocket. If you do not believe that China is going to be an even more massive world power in the coming decades, then I guess I understand the drop in interest. I just cannot fathom how that could happen, tho…

Do you have any data to show china’s economy trending in a positive direction recently?

Re: Fewer university students are studying Mandarin

#24

Post by jamesaurichs »

jimbob45 wrote: post #13
jamesaurichs wrote: post #11

There is 0 reason to learn mandarin if you're doing it for travel/business reasons In Taiwan street signs do mostly have English translations. A lot of citizens speak English, especially night market vendors. You'll also have a lot of native English speakers in Taipei due to expatriation from US and Canada. In Singapore signs officially are in English. And it's one of the four official languages, which means most peo…

Do you have an explanation for China’s low tourism? Is it just latent fears of COVID?

Here are some conjectures:

1.) There is a very high dislike of China across the world.

Large majorities in most of the 19 countries surveyed have negative views of China https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2022/06/29/negative-views...

2.) No business need to travel there. Foreign investment is down 90% this year. Literally no US/europe presence in the trade fairs in China the summer.

3.) Flights are super expensive, because of low demand, upwards of $5k-10k. travel out of China is down hugely due to the economy, you can search on youTube for videos from Shanghai airport where the airport is devoid of travelers, and filled with empty shops.

4.) It is very hard for travelers to navigate through China. No English translations in street signs. One needs Alipay to pay for anything in China, which is complicated to setup. Ethnocentrism from rising nationalism means there could be racism/violence against travelers.

Re: Fewer university students are studying Mandarin

#25

Post by nonethewiser »

shaneoh wrote: post #17
nonethewiser wrote: post #15

It's just not that useful. It's only useful in China and foreigners can't really conduct business there. It's basically only useful if you move to China which is just a handful of people and shrinking at this point.

Can't the same argument be made of almost any language unless you live in a bilingual neighborhood?

No because English is the de-facto language for trade.

Re: Fewer university students are studying Mandarin

#26

Post by rcme »

shaneoh wrote: post #17
nonethewiser wrote: post #15

It's just not that useful. It's only useful in China and foreigners can't really conduct business there. It's basically only useful if you move to China which is just a handful of people and shrinking at this point.

Can't the same argument be made of almost any language unless you live in a bilingual neighborhood?

Yes, which is why most languages are only spoken by native speaker.

Re: Fewer university students are studying Mandarin

#27

Post by nonethewiser »

version_five wrote: post #2

It's sad, I think people wanting to learn a language represents some kind of hope, and 10 years ago we were overall bullish on increased international collaboration. Now things have become way more insular, a future of international collaboration between superpowers seems way less likely. It's really sad.

We are absolutely moving towards a more fractured world with regional centers of power. Frankly it's hard to imagine what would re-consolidate power. Probably something terrible. Last time that was the widespread destruction of the industrialized world (save the USA) and a long, protracted nuclear standoff that the United States won through economic diplomacy and security guarantees.

Re: Fewer university students are studying Mandarin

#28

Post by ninjin »

NN88 wrote: post #3

Soft power matters. "Cool" matters. China will always struggle against freer and more open societies that bring people into their culture, music, art, and other forms of expression. The comparison to what Japan and South Korea have done should be a wake up call for these places. Even Russia doesn't have the cultural cachet it did during the Cold War.

Something which I think I in my "western ignorance" underestimated is the massive amount of soft power Japan wields through its economy and culture in East/South Asia. Possibly because Japanese culture mainly reached geeks such as myself in Europe.

All the way down to Oceania and even the most nationalistic PRC national, every single one of them that I know have experienced Japanese manga and anime since childhood in the same way that Disney had a reach across "The West". Heck, look at today's "geek culture" in the PRC and tell me that you do not see the obvious parallels to Japan.

Re: Fewer university students are studying Mandarin

#29

Post by samcheng »

jimbob45 wrote: post #13
jamesaurichs wrote: post #11

There is 0 reason to learn mandarin if you're doing it for travel/business reasons In Taiwan street signs do mostly have English translations. A lot of citizens speak English, especially night market vendors. You'll also have a lot of native English speakers in Taipei due to expatriation from US and Canada. In Singapore signs officially are in English. And it's one of the four official languages, which means most peo…

Do you have an explanation for China’s low tourism? Is it just latent fears of COVID?

I doubt it's about COVID now. The government has really ruined China's "brand" internationally.

1. You need an onerous-to-obtain visa to visit. There is no visa exemption.

2. Banking is a total pain for a foreigner. Many places only accept Alipay or Wechat, which require a Chinese bank account. Cash doesn't work well either, because the largest denomination is tiny.

3. Many US-China flights were canceled in the pandemic and never restarted afterwards. As a result, flights to China are expensive.

4. The Western apps are commonly blocked in China, and the local apps don't have an English translation. Your smartphone is a lot less useful in China.

5. Many US employers ban their employees from bringing company equipment (laptops) into China for fear of corporate espionage.

6. Lots of reports of hostile behavior toward westerners...

The list could go on. There's a reason e.g. Japanese tourism is booming!

Post reply on HN