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Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

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Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#71

Post by The_Colonel »

stdbrouw wrote: post #50
arp242 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why we stopped using it. Except we didn't; wine and spirits come almost exclusively in glass bottles, beer is frequently in glass (although cans are also used), almost every store will have some sodas and bottled water in glass, most people at home and restaurants use glasses made from, well, glass, etc.

Glass is a little bit better at keeping oxygen out than plastic, dark glass keeps UV rays at bay, and thick glass bottles can better withstand the pressure of a second fermentation in the bottle, as with champagne and abbey beers. It also looks nice. These are advantages for beer and wine, but mostly irrelevant for soda, water and juices.

Maybe it's some mass illusion, but most people say that drinking from glass bottles tastes significantly better. Personally cans taste bad, plastic somewhat better.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#72

Post by stuaxo »

theelous3 wrote: post #5

This was a strange read. "Just as toxic" reads, obviously, as "as bad as", with the implication that paper is as bad as plastic. But the article ignores paper entirely and focuses on the use of PLA liners in (some) paper cups and lids. So, already there is obviously far less potentially toxic material and so already the title is untrue. Then the article states that there are "as many chemicals" in PLA as regular plas…

Strange I had to scroll this far down to read what seems obvious on the face of it.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#73

Post by [deleted] »

dghughes wrote: post #29
vladvasiliu wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that while you can drink out of glassware or ceramics (I enjoy those for my coffee and tea), basically everything is carted around in plastic. If you want to buy water when you're out and about and want it in a glass bottle, your only choices are the "premium" brands that cost an arm and a leg. And, more generally, it's pretty darn hard to avoid plastics when buying food. When I was a kid, when my parent…

> Nowadays, that "paper" seems to be able to withstand whatever you throw at it. I'd say it's silicone impregnated paper like parchment paper or probably is parchment paper which is paper coated with silicone.

[deleted]

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#74

Post by omnicognate »

jdietrich wrote: post #70
omnicognate wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glass is awesome. It's reusable many times over and recyclable after that. We used to have systems to allow that reuse (bottle return) before somehow we ended up throwing away a plastic bottle (recycled at best) every time we buy a pint of milk. And contrary to sibling comment, glass containers don't leach heavy metals (or anything else) into food.

Plastic bottles are more environmentally friendly. Glass requires massively more energy to manufacture, even using 100% recycled glass. Glass is heavy, so it's more expensive to transport. Collecting and washing bottles for re-use consumes a substantial amount of energy, which greatly increases the number of trips required to break even on the higher manufacturing impacts. The lifespan of a re-usable glass bottle is…

They are currently, but only because we're crap at reuse. Glass bottles are highly reusable - 15 times or more on average - before they need to be recycled (i.e. melted).

Minimising the transport costs is part of the design of the reuse process. Milk floats are a great example of this. Milk delivered to the door by an electrical vehicle daily and empties collected by the same vehicle, washed and refilled. This was the standard way to get milk (and often juice, eggs, etc) in my childhood but nowadays people throw a plastic bottle into a generic recycling stream every time and I highly doubt it's an improvement.

Online grocery shopping reduces fuel usage and pollution for getting goods to homes by consolidating many deliveries in one vehicle round. It would be great to see this being used (again) as a way of improving packaging efficiency too, one way or another.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#75

Post by dgroshev »

The_Colonel wrote: post #71
stdbrouw wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glass is a little bit better at keeping oxygen out than plastic, dark glass keeps UV rays at bay, and thick glass bottles can better withstand the pressure of a second fermentation in the bottle, as with champagne and abbey beers. It also looks nice. These are advantages for beer and wine, but mostly irrelevant for soda, water and juices.

Maybe it's some mass illusion, but most people say that drinking from glass bottles tastes significantly better. Personally cans taste bad, plastic somewhat better.

Cans are lined with plastic on the inside, otherwise aluminium would react with acidic soda. There is no practical difference in that regard between a plastic bottle and an aluminium can lined with plastic

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#76

Post by doubleg72 »

Balero wrote: post #51
Ekaros wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use drugs. But my understanding is that plastic bottles aren't exactly uncommon even for spirits. And then with wines you get the boxed stuff. A carboard box, with plastic/foil bag inside.

I do use drugs. I have never seen spirits in a plastic bottle, even own brand super market vodka. Boxed wine exists, and is a bit under half the market (by volume). Wine in glasses is still the majority of sales. Beer/cider/larger is sold in cans or bottles, with cans being about 2/3rd by volume.

I do drugs as well, but I don't typically drink alcohol. Maybe I am not qualified to speak on this, but in the US most of the cheap vodkas have been coming in plastic bottles for around 15 years now at least.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#77

Post by doubleg72 »

jdietrich wrote: post #70
omnicognate wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glass is awesome. It's reusable many times over and recyclable after that. We used to have systems to allow that reuse (bottle return) before somehow we ended up throwing away a plastic bottle (recycled at best) every time we buy a pint of milk. And contrary to sibling comment, glass containers don't leach heavy metals (or anything else) into food.

Plastic bottles are more environmentally friendly. Glass requires massively more energy to manufacture, even using 100% recycled glass. Glass is heavy, so it's more expensive to transport. Collecting and washing bottles for re-use consumes a substantial amount of energy, which greatly increases the number of trips required to break even on the higher manufacturing impacts. The lifespan of a re-usable glass bottle is…

I think microplastics are a much greater concern than the extra energy used to transport either of these materials.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#78

Post by morsch »

sneak wrote: post #53
omnicognate wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glass is awesome. It's reusable many times over and recyclable after that. We used to have systems to allow that reuse (bottle return) before somehow we ended up throwing away a plastic bottle (recycled at best) every time we buy a pint of milk. And contrary to sibling comment, glass containers don't leach heavy metals (or anything else) into food.

It's much heavier to cart around, which must be factored in. There's absolutely nothing inherently harmful in single use plastics if they get properly disposed of in landfill. Driving heavy glass back and forth from the bottling plant burns a lot of diesel unnecessarily.

In either case it's better not to transport bulk liquids more than necessary. Tap water, locally brewed beer.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#79

Post by arp242 »

dgroshev wrote: post #75
The_Colonel wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's some mass illusion, but most people say that drinking from glass bottles tastes significantly better. Personally cans taste bad, plastic somewhat better.

Cans are lined with plastic on the inside, otherwise aluminium would react with acidic soda. There is no practical difference in that regard between a plastic bottle and an aluminium can lined with plastic

I like drinking from a can; your mouth still touches the metal while you drink, so while the flavour of the liquid as such is unaffected, it still changes the overall "flavour experience" (for either better or worse, depending on personal tastes).

If you pour it out in a glass it makes no difference.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#80

Post by specialist »

guidedlight wrote: post #16
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #6

Oh, yeah, that's no secret. Anything that touches food is lined to within an inch of its life with plastic. There's no escaping that. Every soda can you drink, most of your reusable water bottles, all that supposedly eco-friendly packaging is loaded with plastic. And they can BPA-free you all they want, but they just keep shifting to newer, less tested substances that don't have a bad reputation yet.

There is plastic-free paper and cardboard packaging. But that is normally loaded with PFAS which is used to stop paper from breaking down when exposed to food fats. However PFAS is a chemical that accumulates in the human body and has been linked to cancer, liver damager, decreased fertility, asthma, and thyroid damage. So yeah, you can remove the plastic lining from paper, but that severely decreases our quality of…

Waxed paper is a centuries old technology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waxed_paper

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greaseproof_paper

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchment_paper

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