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Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

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Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#21

Post by chaxor »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #6

Oh, yeah, that's no secret. Anything that touches food is lined to within an inch of its life with plastic. There's no escaping that. Every soda can you drink, most of your reusable water bottles, all that supposedly eco-friendly packaging is loaded with plastic. And they can BPA-free you all they want, but they just keep shifting to newer, less tested substances that don't have a bad reputation yet.

Polyethylene doesn't seem that new or untested, and it's unlikely for it to contain rings, so it doesn't seem so bad. Perhaps the catalyst used that can't be pulled out after. Last time I checked I think it was a homogeneous chromium based catalyst that is used for PE, but it ends up being a very small amount left over.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#22

Post by chaxor »

Tade0 wrote: post #11

Stainless steel is a great replacement, but it gets stolen a lot in places that implement it. Hell, even reusable plastic containers get stolen: https://packagingeurope.com/news/reusable-mcdonalds-packagin...

Steel can often contain small but considerable amounts of heavy metals like lead.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#23

Post by theelous3 »

asimpletune wrote: post #7
theelous3 wrote: post #5

This was a strange read. "Just as toxic" reads, obviously, as "as bad as", with the implication that paper is as bad as plastic. But the article ignores paper entirely and focuses on the use of PLA liners in (some) paper cups and lids. So, already there is obviously far less potentially toxic material and so already the title is untrue. Then the article states that there are "as many chemicals" in PLA as regular plas…

Taken literally, you're right, but in effect their point remains that paper (food containers) nonetheless can be toxic. I think the main point is this is a serious issue but there's still time to phase this stuff out of our lives without it causing a massive inconvenience. They mentioned at the bottom of the article there's an effort in the UN to organize an agreement to ban plastics, and the authors called for trans…

That wasn't really their point. Their point was that paper containers are toxic, but it's a lie by omission to call them just paper containers.

If they had just written a good faith article pointing out that paper containers typically also contain PLA and this is known to be toxic in the environment, all would be well.

"PLA lined paper containers are toxic in the environment" would be a fair title.

This might seem pedantic but we have to draw a line between good faith activism and intentionally misleading activism.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#24

Post by vladvasiliu »

morsch wrote: post #13
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #6

Oh, yeah, that's no secret. Anything that touches food is lined to within an inch of its life with plastic. There's no escaping that. Every soda can you drink, most of your reusable water bottles, all that supposedly eco-friendly packaging is loaded with plastic. And they can BPA-free you all they want, but they just keep shifting to newer, less tested substances that don't have a bad reputation yet.

There's glass . Has been around for 3000+ years.

The issue is that while you can drink out of glassware or ceramics (I enjoy those for my coffee and tea), basically everything is carted around in plastic.

If you want to buy water when you're out and about and want it in a glass bottle, your only choices are the "premium" brands that cost an arm and a leg.

And, more generally, it's pretty darn hard to avoid plastics when buying food. When I was a kid, when my parents bought meat from the butcher, it would be wrapped in actual paper, or close enough that it would become unusable once home, and they had to move the meat to solid containers. Nowadays, that "paper" seems to be able to withstand whatever you throw at it. Packaged meats and cheeses always come wrapped in some kind of plastic. The only food I still see in glass containers are "canned" vegetables.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#25

Post by vladvasiliu »

guidedlight wrote: post #16
NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #6

Oh, yeah, that's no secret. Anything that touches food is lined to within an inch of its life with plastic. There's no escaping that. Every soda can you drink, most of your reusable water bottles, all that supposedly eco-friendly packaging is loaded with plastic. And they can BPA-free you all they want, but they just keep shifting to newer, less tested substances that don't have a bad reputation yet.

There is plastic-free paper and cardboard packaging. But that is normally loaded with PFAS which is used to stop paper from breaking down when exposed to food fats. However PFAS is a chemical that accumulates in the human body and has been linked to cancer, liver damager, decreased fertility, asthma, and thyroid damage. So yeah, you can remove the plastic lining from paper, but that severely decreases our quality of…

Maybe wrap it in five sheets of paper and wrap that in plastic. It should hold enough for the trip home and should help limit the amount of chemicals moving into the actual food. At home, you can move the food into glass containers for storage.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#26

Post by Ekaros »

Hmm, is there at this point even possibility to have a safe drink? The containers are one thing, but what about the whole chain how coffee is made and water is sourced? What container is it brewed in, what about various steps in processing the beans? Growing the beans?

And same goes for everything.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#27

Post by arp242 »

veave wrote: post #15
morsch wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's glass . Has been around for 3000+ years.

Glass sucks. That's why we stopped using it. It's expensive, it's brittle, it's heavy, it takes up a lot of space.

> That's why we stopped using it.

Except we didn't; wine and spirits come almost exclusively in glass bottles, beer is frequently in glass (although cans are also used), almost every store will have some sodas and bottled water in glass, most people at home and restaurants use glasses made from, well, glass, etc.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#28

Post by omnicognate »

veave wrote: post #15
morsch wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's glass . Has been around for 3000+ years.

Glass sucks. That's why we stopped using it. It's expensive, it's brittle, it's heavy, it takes up a lot of space.

Glass is awesome. It's reusable many times over and recyclable after that. We used to have systems to allow that reuse (bottle return) before somehow we ended up throwing away a plastic bottle (recycled at best) every time we buy a pint of milk.

And contrary to sibling comment, glass containers don't leach heavy metals (or anything else) into food.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#29

Post by dghughes »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #24
morsch wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's glass . Has been around for 3000+ years.

The issue is that while you can drink out of glassware or ceramics (I enjoy those for my coffee and tea), basically everything is carted around in plastic. If you want to buy water when you're out and about and want it in a glass bottle, your only choices are the "premium" brands that cost an arm and a leg. And, more generally, it's pretty darn hard to avoid plastics when buying food. When I was a kid, when my parent…

> Nowadays, that "paper" seems to be able to withstand whatever you throw at it.

I'd say it's silicone impregnated paper like parchment paper or probably is parchment paper which is paper coated with silicone.

Re: Paper cups are just as toxic as plastic cups

#30

Post by JonChesterfield »

If plastic is worse than paper, and a paper cup has a plastic lining, where the total mass of plastic in the paper cup is less than a wholly plastic cup, this still seems a win.

There seems a risk that articles like this that equate plastic to plastic-coated-paper will lead to people treating them as equal, so they may as well use the more convenient one, which seems at odds with the nominal agenda of trashing the environment less.

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