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Men charged by U.S. with laundering more than $1B in cryptocurrency

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Men charged by U.S. with laundering more than $1B in cryptocurrency

#21

Post by splix »

tw04 wrote: post #17
whoami_nr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this isn't the same. Going by your example, its like arresting the designer of the shredder machine

Ignoring that I think you're grossly understating their involvement, if you want to focus on only their development efforts, this is FAR closer to the people that made diesel tuners to facilitate removing emissions equipment. There's no legitimate reason for those to exist. Or this.

Do you mean there is no legitimate reason to have a financial privacy? like in general it should not exist, or just this particular example?

Re: Men charged by U.S. with laundering more than $1B in cryptocurrency

#22

Post by mptest »

tw04 wrote: post #7
whoami_nr wrote: post #4

This is very alarming and a very overreaching thing by the government. These men wrote an open source protocol (smart contract) which was used by random folks to "also" launder money. Its like arresting Tor developers because people host illegal content on it. Leaving this here for more details and reference: https://rnikhil.com/2022/08/09/tornado-cash-block.html

Huh? They were running tornado cash which existed for the sole purpose of laundering money. This isn't at all reaching, if your bank down the street started shredding records for deposits in order to transact with drug dealers, they would also be arrested.

>if your bank... also be arrested

No they wouldn't, how naive are you? they'd get fined a small fraction of the amounts they likely earned for the crime. [1,2,3] + 10 others from one bing search.

[1]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jul/21/drug-cartels-b...

[2]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/03/us-bank-mexico...

[3]https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/08/news/rabobank-mexico-drug-m...

Re: Men charged by U.S. with laundering more than $1B in cryptocurrency

#23

Post by splix »

KidComputer wrote: post #13
whoami_nr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this isn't the same. Going by your example, its like arresting the designer of the shredder machine

Shredders have legitimate uses, this is more like a ghost gun. It's pretty much only used for breaking the law.

Curious, what do you think about breaking the laws of authoritarian countries to save people's lives? Do you think people should be allowed to do that or not?

Re: Men charged by U.S. with laundering more than $1B in cryptocurrency

#24

Post by wmf »

appplication wrote: post #20
umeshunni wrote: post #14

This is concerning: At one point, when the founders suggested they create a version of the service that would adhere to federal anti-money-laundering and know-your-customer rules, the investors at the venture capital fund “dismissed the idea,” the indictment says. One of them allegedly wrote “it would be unlikely that as a fund we’d use a ‘compliant mixer.’”

What does compliant mixer mean here?

Maybe only legit people would be allowed to use it. Clean money in, anonymous clean money out.

Re: Men charged by U.S. with laundering more than $1B in cryptocurrency

#25

Post by meepmorp »

appplication wrote: post #20
umeshunni wrote: post #14

This is concerning: At one point, when the founders suggested they create a version of the service that would adhere to federal anti-money-laundering and know-your-customer rules, the investors at the venture capital fund “dismissed the idea,” the indictment says. One of them allegedly wrote “it would be unlikely that as a fund we’d use a ‘compliant mixer.’”

What does compliant mixer mean here?

Compliant with money laundering laws.

Re: Men charged by U.S. with laundering more than $1B in cryptocurrency

#26

Post by afarrell »

splix wrote: post #23
KidComputer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shredders have legitimate uses, this is more like a ghost gun. It's pretty much only used for breaking the law.

Curious, what do you think about breaking the laws of authoritarian countries to save people's lives? Do you think people should be allowed to do that or not?

“Allowed” by whom?

The police employed by authoritarian countries? Yes, though I don’t think corrupt officials should take bribes.

The judges employed by those countries who recognize necessity as an excuse for what is otherwise a crime? Yes, though now the law seems less authoritarian.

INTERPOL? Depends on the law.

———————————-

How does this relate to the topic a hand?

Re: Men charged by U.S. with laundering more than $1B in cryptocurrency

#27

Post by hattmall »

coderintherye wrote: post #9
whoami_nr wrote: post #4

This is very alarming and a very overreaching thing by the government. These men wrote an open source protocol (smart contract) which was used by random folks to "also" launder money. Its like arresting Tor developers because people host illegal content on it. Leaving this here for more details and reference: https://rnikhil.com/2022/08/09/tornado-cash-block.html

This is a false narrative made pretty clear by the indictment: https://www.justice.gov/media/1311391/dl?inline If you start a company and take investment and rake in money without AML controls then you're going to have a bad time. Don't want to be arrested? Pretty simple: Either live in Russia or don't start a company to make money off of money laundering. Or just build the open-source software without trying to make…

What if you could create a smart contract / protocol / service whatever it was. That's not a company. It's just software, anybody can use it for any reason. It could be possible that people use it to launder money, or they could not. But when people use it you get paid. Like a creators skim from every transaction. But you don't really have any control over who uses it or whatnot.

Re: Men charged by U.S. with laundering more than $1B in cryptocurrency

#28

Post by splix »

afarrell wrote: post #26
splix wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious, what do you think about breaking the laws of authoritarian countries to save people's lives? Do you think people should be allowed to do that or not?

“Allowed” by whom? The police employed by authoritarian countries? Yes, though I don’t think corrupt officials should take bribes. The judges employed by those countries who recognize necessity as an excuse for what is otherwise a crime? Yes, though now the law seems less authoritarian. INTERPOL? Depends on the law. ———————————- How does this relate to the topic a hand?

"Allowed" by a technology in this case, I guess.

Like should they be allowed (i.e., have a possibility) to financially support opposition, journalists, etc.? Should the persecuted minorities (LGBT, etc) be able to hide their actions that may reveal them? Or should they be able to leave the country without revealing such plans to authorities in advance? And so on.

It's relevant because a privacy in finance (i.e., "breaking the laws") is important for those people. So I'm curious what the KidComputer thinks about this.

Re: Men charged by U.S. with laundering more than $1B in cryptocurrency

#29

Post by wwtdtgotiatl »

coderintherye wrote: post #9
whoami_nr wrote: post #4

This is very alarming and a very overreaching thing by the government. These men wrote an open source protocol (smart contract) which was used by random folks to "also" launder money. Its like arresting Tor developers because people host illegal content on it. Leaving this here for more details and reference: https://rnikhil.com/2022/08/09/tornado-cash-block.html

This is a false narrative made pretty clear by the indictment: https://www.justice.gov/media/1311391/dl?inline If you start a company and take investment and rake in money without AML controls then you're going to have a bad time. Don't want to be arrested? Pretty simple: Either live in Russia or don't start a company to make money off of money laundering. Or just build the open-source software without trying to make…

> or don't start a company to make money off of money laundering

Funny because real estate agencies across the western world rake it in without fear.

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