OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books • Hacker News Board

Re: OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books

#21

Post by SoftTalker » Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 2:22 AM UTC

coolandsmartrr wrote: post #11

SoftTalker wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean he can't copy the plot? Any commercially successful movie is using one of about five basic plots.

Could you explain the five basic plots? While the number of plot structures are fairly countable, a plot can still be considered different by changing part of its contents (character, setting, etc.). The decision on whether a plot outright infringes on an existing plot varies case-by-case. An example of outright copying is "Fistful of Dollars" directed by Sergio Leone, which lifts the plot from "Yojinbo" by Akira Kur…

1. David vs. Goliath

2. Romeo and Juliet

3. Robin Hood

4. Crime and Punishment

5. maybe there are only four.

Re: OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books

#22

Post by MegaDeKay » Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 2:22 AM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #18

everly wrote: post #13

People keep comparing it to a human ingesting content throughout their life and then being influenced in their own works. I'm sorry but that is not the same thing - at all. The concept of training a model with the explicit intent of selling the output of that model is inherently different. Not saying that it should be illegal. But it is clearly in violation of the spirit of existing copyright law, in my opinion. They…

Yeah and people read copyrighted books so they can get jobs and sell the use of the knowledge they acquired from reading the books. The only difference is a machine doing it at a larger scale.

And (most) people buy those copyrighted books.

Re: OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books

#23

Post by everly » Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 2:22 AM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #18

everly wrote: post #13

People keep comparing it to a human ingesting content throughout their life and then being influenced in their own works. I'm sorry but that is not the same thing - at all. The concept of training a model with the explicit intent of selling the output of that model is inherently different. Not saying that it should be illegal. But it is clearly in violation of the spirit of existing copyright law, in my opinion. They…

Yeah and people read copyrighted books so they can get jobs and sell the use of the knowledge they acquired from reading the books. The only difference is a machine doing it at a larger scale.

Those people are entering into and abiding by a license agreement when they purchase the book.

Re: OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books

#24

Post by mdorazio » Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 2:24 AM UTC

everly wrote: post #13

People keep comparing it to a human ingesting content throughout their life and then being influenced in their own works. I'm sorry but that is not the same thing - at all. The concept of training a model with the explicit intent of selling the output of that model is inherently different. Not saying that it should be illegal. But it is clearly in violation of the spirit of existing copyright law, in my opinion. They…

I'm not understanding how it's different. For example, if I specifically set out to make money by creating and selling a parody of Harry Potter by reading all the Harry Potter books a bunch of times, does that make my parody a violation of the spirit of existing copyright law?

Edit to add another example because someone is going to say that parody is its own thing and exempted. If I want to make money by writing a film in the same way Tarantino does I go and read all his screenplays to understand his style, pacing, character archetypes, etc. Should that also not be ok?

Re: OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books

#25

Post by everly » Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 2:25 AM UTC

nikanj wrote: post #20

everly wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't procure the appropriate license for that content then yes, it is (exceptions for things like parody notwithstanding). For example, clearance of music samples.

So aspiring authors should avoid all reading, because they need licenses for all works that inspired them?

That is an absurd conclusion to draw.

Authors do not need licenses for works that inspired them.

Re: OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books

#26

Post by ipython » Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 2:26 AM UTC

artninja1988 wrote: post #16

everly wrote: post #13

People keep comparing it to a human ingesting content throughout their life and then being influenced in their own works. I'm sorry but that is not the same thing - at all. The concept of training a model with the explicit intent of selling the output of that model is inherently different. Not saying that it should be illegal. But it is clearly in violation of the spirit of existing copyright law, in my opinion. They…

It is not illegal to make money with copyrighted content. Nor should it be

But did you not purchase that content first?

Re: OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books

#27

Post by imgabe » Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 2:26 AM UTC

everly wrote: post #23

imgabe wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and people read copyrighted books so they can get jobs and sell the use of the knowledge they acquired from reading the books. The only difference is a machine doing it at a larger scale.

Those people are entering into and abiding by a license agreement when they purchase the book.

No they aren't. Where's the Terms of Service for a book? What about secondhand books or books you get from the library or books you borrow from a friend?

I never had a book tell me to an accept a license agreement before I could read it.

Re: OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books

#28

Post by everly » Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 2:28 AM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #24

everly wrote: post #13

People keep comparing it to a human ingesting content throughout their life and then being influenced in their own works. I'm sorry but that is not the same thing - at all. The concept of training a model with the explicit intent of selling the output of that model is inherently different. Not saying that it should be illegal. But it is clearly in violation of the spirit of existing copyright law, in my opinion. They…

I'm not understanding how it's different. For example, if I specifically set out to make money by creating and selling a parody of Harry Potter by reading all the Harry Potter books a bunch of times, does that make my parody a violation of the spirit of existing copyright law? Edit to add another example because someone is going to say that parody is its own thing and exempted. If I want to make money by writing a fi…

No, because parody is a specifically protected category under the law [0].

But, as with many things, the legality would ultimately depend on the nuances of the implementation.

[0] https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/parody

Re: OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books

#29

Post by imgabe » Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 2:29 AM UTC

MegaDeKay wrote: post #22

imgabe wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and people read copyrighted books so they can get jobs and sell the use of the knowledge they acquired from reading the books. The only difference is a machine doing it at a larger scale.

And (most) people buy those copyrighted books.

Libraries exist. Borrowing books from a friend exists. Even if you stole the book, using the knowledge you learned from it to make money is not copyright infringement.

If you steal a book about how to make money flipping houses and then start flipping houses, at worst you are on the hook for a minor theft. The author can't sue you for illicitly learning to flip houses from the stolen book. That is just not how that works at all.

Re: OpenAI now tries to hide that ChatGPT was trained on copyrighted books

#30

Post by evdubs » Fri, Aug 25, 2023, 2:30 AM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #24

everly wrote: post #13

People keep comparing it to a human ingesting content throughout their life and then being influenced in their own works. I'm sorry but that is not the same thing - at all. The concept of training a model with the explicit intent of selling the output of that model is inherently different. Not saying that it should be illegal. But it is clearly in violation of the spirit of existing copyright law, in my opinion. They…

I'm not understanding how it's different. For example, if I specifically set out to make money by creating and selling a parody of Harry Potter by reading all the Harry Potter books a bunch of times, does that make my parody a violation of the spirit of existing copyright law? Edit to add another example because someone is going to say that parody is its own thing and exempted. If I want to make money by writing a fi…

Did you, through copyright infringement, acquire your copies of Harry Potter? Did you use Harry Potter source material and a machine to transform the input and produce your parody material?

I think it's different if OpenAI acquires licenses for all of the material it uses for training.