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Common mistakes in salary negotiation

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Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#421

Post by RhodesianHunter »

pc86 wrote: post #393
deckard1 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some companies seem to lie about their top range number as well. If you pass the interview and ask you for a figure and you come back with their top range number, suddenly there are reasons you shouldn't be making that. I strongly suspect they have no intention of giving out that amount but are instead using it to entice people that are willing to accept less than they are worth. It plants the idea that one day you w…

This happened to me, range was $x-y for a position I was very well qualified for. They wanted 6-8 YOE while I had 12, I had 5+ years familiarity with the business domain alone, experience in all the tech, demonstrable experience doing what they wanted to do in the next 2 years. Comes time for salary negotiation and their first offer is exactly in the middle of X and Y not surprisingly. I list all the above, say it's…

Probably different people responsible for coming up with the range and for making offers.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#422

Post by loco5niner »

UncleMeat wrote: post #407
xyzelement wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

// I make around 600k ... Still, I capture only a fraction of the value I generate for my employer. There seems to be a two way street here. Presumably if you could make 600K or more by yourself, you'd be doing that rather than working for your employer. Your employer, likely way before you got there, created an environment where you could come in and earn this much. If they and companies of that profile didn't exist…

The other people working for my employer created that environment. The shareholders who own pieces of it didn't do that.

Yes, but the way shares work is that someone paid either the original founders or the company itself for a share, then someone paid that person, and so on. The current shareholders are certainly profiting, but they exist only because the company needed them to exist in order to create the company as it is now.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#423

Post by TimPC »

t0mas88 wrote: post #49
TimPC wrote: post #31

The hard part about these tips is they will lead you to waste a lot of time. Most companies have no real perspective on if they are in the 60th percentile by comp or the 95th percentile by comp for a role. Some companies will also slot you at different levels based on a number of factors including different levels meaning different things at different companies. If you're trying to get your first FAANG job and genera…

In my experience hiring, we know the benchmark numbers for the roles. Because we have current employees in those roles and we want to understand whether we're paying them fairly. Not out of some kind of deep kindness, but because otherwise they'll at some point get a better offer and leave. But it differs across the company where we aim to be. For some roles we aim for 50th percentile, while for other areas we delibe…

In my experience, every company sees what they want to see when it comes to benchmarks. I've seen companies that think FAANG compensation doesn't exist in the marketplace at all and I've seen other companies that target above that level for roles.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#425

Post by woobar »

lelanthran wrote: post #413
woobar wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Look at highly paid surgeons: the ones making the most money are the ones filling every single one of their slots. They know - bedside manners matter. If you are picking a surgeons based on this criteria, you are paying way too much for a 10 minutes conversation aka bedside manners. I personally will go with the rudest mf-er that will fix me right the first time.

> I personally will go with the rudest mf-er that will fix me right the first time. But that's you personally. The clear majority of people prefer the friendliest mf-er that fixes them right the first time.

I think you are wrong here. Clear majority prefers to never see a surgeon.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#426

Post by HumblyTossed »

hknmtt wrote: post #331

There is only one rule when talking about job, or essentially anything in life, if you wan to win. And that is - always be ready to walk out. This mostly means able, not just willing. Never put yourself in a position where you are cornered and have no way out. This is where "fuck you money" comes in, usually. If you know you will have food on the table, roof above your head and a bed to sleep in, your perspective wil…

> Inflation is universal and companies increase their prices accordingly, yet workers never require increase of their salaries, usually until years later.

Every (shitty) company: Best year ever! Profits are up XX%! Investors are happy! Sorry, there's no money for raises.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#427

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #426
hknmtt wrote: post #331

There is only one rule when talking about job, or essentially anything in life, if you wan to win. And that is - always be ready to walk out. This mostly means able, not just willing. Never put yourself in a position where you are cornered and have no way out. This is where "fuck you money" comes in, usually. If you know you will have food on the table, roof above your head and a bed to sleep in, your perspective wil…

> Inflation is universal and companies increase their prices accordingly, yet workers never require increase of their salaries, usually until years later. Every (shitty) company: Best year ever! Profits are up XX%! Investors are happy! Sorry, there's no money for raises.

Even worse:

"Best year ever! Profits are up XX%! Investors are happy! Sorry, there's no money for raises. Also, we're laying some of you off."

That's exactly what Activision-Blizzard did in 2019. They announced record profits, and in the same week announced the layoff of 800 workers.

https://www.polygon.com/2019/2/12/18222096/blizzard-layoffs-...

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#428

Post by dragonwriter »

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #427
HumblyTossed wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inflation is universal and companies increase their prices accordingly, yet workers never require increase of their salaries, usually until years later. Every (shitty) company: Best year ever! Profits are up XX%! Investors are happy! Sorry, there's no money for raises.

Even worse: "Best year ever! Profits are up XX%! Investors are happy! Sorry, there's no money for raises. Also, we're laying some of you off." That's exactly what Activision-Blizzard did in 2019. They announced record profits, and in the same week announced the layoff of 800 workers. https://www.polygon.com/2019/2/12/18222096/blizzard-layoffs-...

It may seem odd at first impressiom, but profits are about the past, layoffs are about the future, so its also not nonsensical.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#429

Post by temikus »

avereveard wrote: post #187

This is mostly wrong advice mutated from trading and that mostly doesn't apply for the highly asymmetrical power balance that exist in salary negotiation, but which still get repeated ad libitum in blogspam sites. Instead of trading like you're in a bazaar in middle east, focus on doing your research. Know your worth, and how to substantiate your worth during an interview. Tell the numbers openly when asked, bodily a…

This is a very good comment. I think the article presumes lower level roles. Very senior comp packages are wildly different so you always go into the convo with “I expect at least X, can you meet my number?” Otherwise you’re that person that tries to negotiate a 250k position up to 500k which is not going to happen.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#430

Post by WalterBright »

UncleMeat wrote: post #398
WalterBright wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to see how making $400k offers is exploiting the worker, rather than the worker exploiting the company.

I make around 600k. My employer has enough cash in the bank to give every single full time employee a bonus of more than half a million dollars. Net income per quarter is something like 100k per full time employee. Yes, I am incredibly fortunate. Yes, I make a very very large amount of money compared to a typical american worker. Still, I capture only a fraction of the value I generate for my employer.

You and those employees can quit and start their own business and you can capture 100% of that value for yourselves.

If you don't want to do that, doesn't that admit the company is providing that value, not you?

For example, I know a top salesman at Microsoft. He'd call up a customer, drop in, get ushered right in to see the CEO, and close another sale.

One day, he decided to capture that value he was provided by working for a startup. He did not close a single sale the entire year. He could not get an appointment with any CEO. He finally quit and got his old job back at Microsoft.

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