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Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

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Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#191

Post by btilly »

soudiere wrote: post #158
drekipus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing this. It's so crucial to know that we have actually lost this information and we're getting worse. > Do you know what is the most uncomfortable position for labour is? Yeah, layin on your back. My wife and I were shocked when we had our first. We were recommended a "natural birth" course that taught us this, and everyone gave us crap about being "woo-woo" and "denying science". Everyone. We also ha…

Imagine working with this guy on a software system. Says no to established best practices across the board "no" to version control, CI/CD, vulnerability scans, patching and all the interventions. Gets one project off the ground by "following their gut", and it wasn't a disaster, concludes this is the way to go. > Doctors and nurses make a big deal about things like "the cord is wrapped around the neck" when the baby…

You are acting like an ignorant first rate asshole.

As example of your ignorance is your lecture about the dangers of an umbilical cord wrapped around the neck. That is, in fact, very common and it is incredibly rare for it to lead to complications. https://unmhealth.org/stories/2022/12/nuchal-cord-managing-d...

Which leads to your willful ignorance of the fact that the guy was exposed to a lot of research about problems in medicalized interventions. "This guy"'s critical experience was almost certainly running across that research. And not on his personal anecdote. I've seen enough of that research myself to know that the interventions that he's questioning really aren't equivalent to any of the software best practices in your straw man comparison.

As for an example of your being an asshole, take your question about what he's upset about with due dates. You are right that it is a medical fact that the date chosen is imprecise. He knew that as well. But you are wrong to have not noticed his story about having his wife be asked about abuse because she wasn't getting induced 2 days after her due date. That behavior on the part of the doctor is an excellent reason to get unhappy.

Now why do doctors behave that way? According to research I saw close to 20 years ago, because they really want to control when the baby comes. It is more convenient for them to have a baby come during the work week rather than interrupting their Sunday golf game, and so they pressure mothers to make that happen. They do this both by recommending medically unnecessary Caesarians, and by inducing when there is no medical need.

Which is an example of the arrogance of the medical industry that illustrates why people get upset about this.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#192

Post by ryandrake »

soudiere wrote: post #158
drekipus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing this. It's so crucial to know that we have actually lost this information and we're getting worse. > Do you know what is the most uncomfortable position for labour is? Yeah, layin on your back. My wife and I were shocked when we had our first. We were recommended a "natural birth" course that taught us this, and everyone gave us crap about being "woo-woo" and "denying science". Everyone. We also ha…

Imagine working with this guy on a software system. Says no to established best practices across the board "no" to version control, CI/CD, vulnerability scans, patching and all the interventions. Gets one project off the ground by "following their gut", and it wasn't a disaster, concludes this is the way to go. > Doctors and nurses make a big deal about things like "the cord is wrapped around the neck" when the baby…

People have so many weird superstitions around childbirth. I guess if there's no harm, the doctors should be willing to accommodate. When you bring your car in for service, you'd never tell the mechanic "I ask that you only use Snap-On wrenches, only work on one part at a time, and NO AIR TOOLS!" But, when it comes to medicine, they have a list of requests about how the doctor should do his work. "You be you" I guess.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#193

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

soudiere wrote: post #158
drekipus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for sharing this. It's so crucial to know that we have actually lost this information and we're getting worse. > Do you know what is the most uncomfortable position for labour is? Yeah, layin on your back. My wife and I were shocked when we had our first. We were recommended a "natural birth" course that taught us this, and everyone gave us crap about being "woo-woo" and "denying science". Everyone. We also ha…

Imagine working with this guy on a software system. Says no to established best practices across the board "no" to version control, CI/CD, vulnerability scans, patching and all the interventions. Gets one project off the ground by "following their gut", and it wasn't a disaster, concludes this is the way to go. > Doctors and nurses make a big deal about things like "the cord is wrapped around the neck" when the baby…

>> Doctors and nurses make a big deal about things like "the cord is wrapped around the neck" when the baby isn't even using its throat to breathe yet.

>they're concerned about occlusion of bloodflow through the cord and/or the carotid artery.

Yep. Our #5's cord was looped 3 times. He was born with no vitals but staff was able to resuscitate him. He was effectively dead for the intervening time.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#194

Post by mikestew »

ryandrake wrote: post #192
soudiere wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine working with this guy on a software system. Says no to established best practices across the board "no" to version control, CI/CD, vulnerability scans, patching and all the interventions. Gets one project off the ground by "following their gut", and it wasn't a disaster, concludes this is the way to go. > Doctors and nurses make a big deal about things like "the cord is wrapped around the neck" when the baby…

People have so many weird superstitions around childbirth. I guess if there's no harm, the doctors should be willing to accommodate. When you bring your car in for service, you'd never tell the mechanic "I ask that you only use Snap-On wrenches, only work on one part at a time, and NO AIR TOOLS!" But, when it comes to medicine, they have a list of requests about how the doctor should do his work. "You be you" I guess…

you'd never tell the mechanic, "...and NO AIR TOOLS!"

Oh, yes, I most certainly would. This is a great example of the tools being there for the convenience of the practitioner, not for your convenience or comfort (I'm sure the reader can draw parallels to child birth on their own).

When you, the mechanic, put the wheels back on you will use a torque wrench and torque the nuts to the proper values. Just I like I used to do 30 years ago when I was a mechanic. Because no one should find out at the side of the road that the air gun torques those puppies to 146ft/lbs, and you're not getting them off with that weenie little wrench that came with the car.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#195

Post by eutropia »

croo wrote: post #39

Everybody is joking half sarcastically here but childbirth as a process in hospitals do have serious problems and modern day labour leaves deep mental scars in most women while being one of the most important thing in their life. This is definitely a step in the wrong direction however laughable the idea is. Do you know what is the most uncomfortable position for labour is? Yeah, layin on your back. It's just the mos…

Wife and I had our first at a hospital with a trained Nurse-Practitioner Midwife group.

We only had to see the OB on call once, and otherwise got to let baby’s and mom’s timetable and needs lead the way, with minimal medical intervention. She was induced because there was a small chance of a kidney issue with baby (a common result on ultrasounds) and we were a few days past due date.

Ultimately, labor lasted 30+ hours and she needed to get an epidural so she could get some sleep through the night to make sure she had enough strength - but she had a vaginal birth and got to do skin-to-skin, and baby only had to leave her side for a hearing check on the following day.

I guess I share all of that to say that a balance can be found. This place was very respectful of our wishes and the NPMW group was incredibly well trained - and we had the peace of mind knowing if anything went south, we were seconds from pediatric surgery, etc…

But to everyone saying “JUST TRUST THE DOCTORS BRO” - use some critical thinking. The medical profession can be dogmatic, arrogant, and hasty. It took a nurse to point out that MDs coming straight from necropsy should wash their hands before delivering a baby to avoid killing mother and child from infection. Doctors are not infallible machines of perfect medical skill, and we know that every medical intervention comes with risk; but humans have been giving birth for eons. Obviously medicine has improved that process in many ways, but medicine is best applied only when needed, so always ask questions and think for yourself.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#196

Post by h2odragon »

elzbardico wrote: post #184
h2odragon wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget the spectator market. We can sell tickets to seats outside the device. The first 3 rows are the "splash zone"; for $5 extra you can have a souvenir poncho with the printed logo.

what about the opportunities of ga-mi-fi-ca-tion? Can we think of a freemium model? ad-supported births? subscriptions?

gambling. wheel of fortune, anyone?

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#197

Post by TeMPOraL »

ryandrake wrote: post #192
soudiere wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine working with this guy on a software system. Says no to established best practices across the board "no" to version control, CI/CD, vulnerability scans, patching and all the interventions. Gets one project off the ground by "following their gut", and it wasn't a disaster, concludes this is the way to go. > Doctors and nurses make a big deal about things like "the cord is wrapped around the neck" when the baby…

People have so many weird superstitions around childbirth. I guess if there's no harm, the doctors should be willing to accommodate. When you bring your car in for service, you'd never tell the mechanic "I ask that you only use Snap-On wrenches, only work on one part at a time, and NO AIR TOOLS!" But, when it comes to medicine, they have a list of requests about how the doctor should do his work. "You be you" I guess…

OTOH, childbirth is a somewhat special case because it's effectively a prolonged surgery process, and standard practice 'till recently effectively denied personhood to the mother. Now we can have differing opinion on the degree this process should be streamlined and optimized for convenience of healthcare practitioners, but if the hospital does ask the patient for their preferences wrt. procedures and standars of care (and/or is required by law to do so), then it's just wrong (and possibly illegal) to then completely ignore those preferences.

This is yet another case where staff is optimizing short-term efficiency by burning long-term trust in healthcare system of entire generations.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#198

Post by jabradoodle »

btilly wrote: post #191
soudiere wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine working with this guy on a software system. Says no to established best practices across the board "no" to version control, CI/CD, vulnerability scans, patching and all the interventions. Gets one project off the ground by "following their gut", and it wasn't a disaster, concludes this is the way to go. > Doctors and nurses make a big deal about things like "the cord is wrapped around the neck" when the baby…

You are acting like an ignorant first rate asshole. As example of your ignorance is your lecture about the dangers of an umbilical cord wrapped around the neck. That is, in fact, very common and it is incredibly rare for it to lead to complications. https://unmhealth.org/stories/2022/12/nuchal-cord-managing-d... Which leads to your willful ignorance of the fact that the guy was exposed to a lot of research about prob…

Did you stop to consider that perhaps the reason complications are rare from the umbilical cord wrapping around the neck, is because medical professionals are actively monitoring for it and mitigating the issue?

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#199

Post by BenjiWiebe »

mikestew wrote: post #194
ryandrake wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have so many weird superstitions around childbirth. I guess if there's no harm, the doctors should be willing to accommodate. When you bring your car in for service, you'd never tell the mechanic "I ask that you only use Snap-On wrenches, only work on one part at a time, and NO AIR TOOLS!" But, when it comes to medicine, they have a list of requests about how the doctor should do his work. "You be you" I guess…

you'd never tell the mechanic, "...and NO AIR TOOLS!" Oh, yes, I most certainly would. This is a great example of the tools being there for the convenience of the practitioner, not for your convenience or comfort (I'm sure the reader can draw parallels to child birth on their own). When you, the mechanic, put the wheels back on you will use a torque wrench and torque the nuts to the proper values. Just I like I used…

If your mechanic doesn't at minimum use a torque-limiting extension when putting lug nuts on you need a new mechanic. Even Walmart uses torque wrenches for that. Source: am a torque-wrench-using non-automotive mechanic, used to work in Walmarts shop.

Re: Apparatus for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force (1963)

#200

Post by jncfhnb »

croo wrote: post #169
jncfhnb wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the ideal positions? Back seems ideal at a naive glance

I guess it's different for everyone but by anecdote on all four or squatting, preferably in bath.

For hours?
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