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Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

theguardian.com

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Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#121

Post by lemper »

bArray wrote: post #118
hilbert42 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I did a bit of speleology so I'm not afraid of confined spaces but as a male I'd be scared to spend time on a submarine in cramped conditions and in mixed company. I reckon I'd be under constant stress in case I accidentally said something out of place unlike in all-male work environments I've worked in the past where banter and certain types of comment pass without thought. The nature and politics of the t…

> I reckon I'd be under constant stress in case I accidentally said something out of place unlike in all-male work environments I've worked in the past where banter and certain types of comment pass without thought. Using banter for high-stress situations is quite a British thing. There's a story I was told about British troops during WWII in wet rat ridden trenches, cold and low on rations, having banter to keep mor…

> Using banter for high-stress situations is quite a British thing.

can depth crush rape list be categorised as banter?

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#122

Post by Dalewyn »

notahacker wrote: post #120
Lio wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that just today The Guardian is running a story praising a new women only living space in London[1], a city where 81% of homeless, rough sleepers are men[2]. This chimes with the view that gender segregation is only seen as a bad thing when it's male only spaces. 1. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/24/we-have... 2. https://www.statista.com/statistics/381373/london-homelessne...

Am struggling to see a connection between impoverished rough sleepers and a single expensive apartment development in genteel New Barnet having a covenant that its tenants must be women. I guess women wouldn't have to stretch credulity quite so far to show how male only spaces and defaults impact them...

The problem and hypocrisy is that saying "only men allowed" will get you tarred and feathered, while saying "only women allowed" will get you showered with praise about how courageous and bold you are.

Now, what was that about gender equality again?

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#123

Post by defrost »

Dalewyn wrote: post #122
notahacker wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am struggling to see a connection between impoverished rough sleepers and a single expensive apartment development in genteel New Barnet having a covenant that its tenants must be women. I guess women wouldn't have to stretch credulity quite so far to show how male only spaces and defaults impact them...

The problem and hypocrisy is that saying "only men allowed" will get you tarred and feathered, while saying "only women allowed" will get you showered with praise about how courageous and bold you are. Now, what was that about gender equality again?

Tarred and feathered? Not in England.

Eton (1440-), Harrow (1572), Radley (1847) are all prestige "public" (for very rich well connected 'public') boys-only schools; the jewels in a crown of many more [1] that serve as introductions to a sea of men only clubs that still exist aplenty.

With examples of an exclusive to women apartment building, many exclusive to male schools and clubs the only thing demonstrating gender openess in England here is homelessness - which might be dominated by men but still admits women to wander sans roof on the streets.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_boys%27_schools_in_the...

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#124

Post by Hendrikto »

littlestymaar wrote: post #116
nonethewiser wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 3 years later in 2017 there are drugs and sex problems. > Nine service personnel on a nuclear submarine have been discharged from the Royal Navy after testing positive for drugs. > The revelations come after claims earlier this month of inappropriate sexual relationships among some of those on board HMS Vigilant, one of four Vanguard Class submarines which maintain the UK's nuclear deterrent and is armed with Tri…

So you think women brought drugs on submarines?

That‘s not what he said at all.

More stress means more temptation to take drugs.

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#125

Post by Hendrikto »

tpurves wrote: post #97
sklargh wrote: post #51

A friend of mine once described his submerged time on a submarine as “like prison, but without the possibility of escape.”

I think about that sort of description when people talk about colonizing space, or mars or the moon. Would it even be ethical to bear children on such a colony who, not by choice, would have to live their lives confined to a cramped habitat that would probably feel a lot like living in a submarine?

As if the majority of children on earth had it better…

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#126

Post by Dalewyn »

hilbert42 wrote: post #52
pbj1968 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you just shut off the lizard brain and don’t think about your coworkers that way.

It has nothing to do with lizard brain whatsoever. If for some reason I had to take disciplinary action against one of those women and I had good and legitimate reason to do so then I would be at risk of retribution. The chances of me being believed would be negligible. I have always been courteous to coworkers, especially women. Your comment has just validified my point about today's politics. Decades ago no one wou…

I made a comment a couple days ago (which has since been flagged, go figure) about how the MeToo movement was and still is a disaster that just made interacting with women more problematic and far too much of a liability than it has to be.

I thank you for reaffirming my thoughts on it more eloquently than I ever could.

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#127

Post by 6LLvveMx2koXfwn »

Dalewyn wrote: post #122
notahacker wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am struggling to see a connection between impoverished rough sleepers and a single expensive apartment development in genteel New Barnet having a covenant that its tenants must be women. I guess women wouldn't have to stretch credulity quite so far to show how male only spaces and defaults impact them...

The problem and hypocrisy is that saying "only men allowed" will get you tarred and feathered, while saying "only women allowed" will get you showered with praise about how courageous and bold you are. Now, what was that about gender equality again?

Indeed, there is no such thing as equality, hence the need for women only spaces.

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#128

Post by notahacker »

Dalewyn wrote: post #122
notahacker wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am struggling to see a connection between impoverished rough sleepers and a single expensive apartment development in genteel New Barnet having a covenant that its tenants must be women. I guess women wouldn't have to stretch credulity quite so far to show how male only spaces and defaults impact them...

The problem and hypocrisy is that saying "only men allowed" will get you tarred and feathered, while saying "only women allowed" will get you showered with praise about how courageous and bold you are. Now, what was that about gender equality again?

Even if this was true (and it isn't: the UK has loads of male only accommodation from homeless shelters to its most prestigious boarding schools and the Grauniad will happily gush about men's groups[1] too), it has nothing to do with the intellectual dishonesty of linking the homelessness problem to gender segregation in an expensive retirement community in New Barnet.

[1]https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/jul/23/meeting...

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#129

Post by Gareth321 »

littlestymaar wrote: post #115
hilbert42 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I did a bit of speleology so I'm not afraid of confined spaces but as a male I'd be scared to spend time on a submarine in cramped conditions and in mixed company. I reckon I'd be under constant stress in case I accidentally said something out of place unlike in all-male work environments I've worked in the past where banter and certain types of comment pass without thought. The nature and politics of the t…

> I reckon I'd be under constant stress in case I accidentally said something out of place unlike in all-male work environments I've worked in the past where banter and certain types of comment pass without thought. As a male, I can assure you that the types of comments that you think “pass without thought” isn't considered desirable by all of your fellow male colleagues either. Sure they won't necessarily complaint…

> As a male, I can assure you that the types of comments that you think “pass without thought” isn't considered desirable by all of your fellow male colleagues either. Sure they won't necessarily complaint about it publicly, but they'll still see you in a negative way.

You seem to have missed his point. It isn't whether his comments are considered desirable. He doesn't care, and neither do I. It is whether comments are raised to HR, management, or for personal lawsuits. This is potentially career ending. Part of living in a society with free speech is that we sometimes say things which hurt others people's feelings. We accept this because the alternative is self-imposed segregation. Which is, again, what they are pointing out. In the office today I am very careful never to be alone in a room with a woman. I don't "banter" with women because I am worried that one of my comments, however harmless in intent, will be perceived poorly. This means my dynamic with male colleagues is different because I trust they will not attempt to end my career over a misunderstanding.

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#130

Post by SeasonalEnnui »

OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #45

The BBC did a documentary in the 1980s on the submarine commander selection process. It is called "The Perisher" with good reason. I can only find Part 1 on YT but have definitely seen the whole thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1LF2I3fTbY

"How to Command a Nuclear Submarine" available on Prime Video.
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