311–320 of 467 posts
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According to Freaknomics, realtors get about 3% higher average closing prices on their own properties than when they're representing you as a customer. That is the delta when it is their money on the line vs yours.
3%? That's like a minor 'I want this to be done now' or someone else is coming for a second viewing tomorrow type bump, if that's even statistically significant, frankly that seems fine?
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the person I replied to was in an environment about gender > “they were especially trying to make sure women were making as much as men” when the incentive models are unequal the behaviors of the market participants will be unequal you’ll get workplace equality and wage normalization overnight with that patch to the culture, instead of focusing solely on trying to patch the workplace
The company has over 80,000 employees and women are more than 50% of the full time employees and the majority of managers are women (by a long shot). I'm not sure what needs patching to the culture.
To get a similar level of representation more commonly
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That worked in 2012, but I highly doubt it would work in 2023.
Why not? If you’re truly willing to walk away from an offer, non-negotiable ones often turn out to be malleable.
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>That's not the same as saying you would refuse any offer for less. So you haven't answered the question I actually asked. The question is ambiguous, in some cases I stood on my number and would not take anything less, in other cases I renegotiated for other compensation e.g. less base, for much higher sign up bonus. Don't see how is this relevant though. Essentially, after each side called a number, no matter the or…
> You claim that if the employer calls the number first, the final number will magically be higher than if the candidate called the number first. No, I claim that, on net, you will end up with a better final deal if you do not give any number until after you have an offer and you are ready to respond to it. See further comments below. > In your model, if employer said 200 first and you, using your strategy responded…
Okay, so you don't respond with a number at all, do I understand correctly? I think you overestimating your negotiation skills a bit but if it works for you, best of luck.
I used to work in trading and I think some of the principles I learned there apply directly to salary negotiations. Two key things I think about all the time are price discovery and competition. Price discovery means that in some illiquid markets, you don't really know what a thing will trade at unless you try to trade it (which itself reveals some information to the counterparty but that's not important in the job c…
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The signal is that you don’t present well and need to work on that.
That's a signal you can more easily get from a practice interview. In a real interview, you have no idea why you were rejected. Maybe you don't present well. Maybe you present perfectly well, but somebody else had slightly more experience dealing with a specific problem the company needs solved. Maybe they already decided to hire somebody, but needed to conduct interviews anyway to satisfy the lawyers. Is there a goo…
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That's a signal you can more easily get from a practice interview. In a real interview, you have no idea why you were rejected. Maybe you don't present well. Maybe you present perfectly well, but somebody else had slightly more experience dealing with a specific problem the company needs solved. Maybe they already decided to hire somebody, but needed to conduct interviews anyway to satisfy the lawyers. Is there a goo…
OP wasn't discussing a singular instance, but what you can infer if it keeps happening. As N increases the role of luck decreases.
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> You claim that if the employer calls the number first, the final number will magically be higher than if the candidate called the number first. No, I claim that, on net, you will end up with a better final deal if you do not give any number until after you have an offer and you are ready to respond to it. See further comments below. > In your model, if employer said 200 first and you, using your strategy responded…
>My strategy would be to not respond with a number to any offer until I have all of the offers I expect to get on the table (either that or those companies have told me definitely that they are not interested in going any further, so I can cross them off my list of possibles). My only response to an offer before that point would be to say "Ok, thanks very much for your offer, let me do some thinking about it and get…
No. What you quoted from me doesn't say that. It says I don't respond with a number to any offer until I have all the offers I expect on the table (or those leads have otherwise been crossed off). It doesn't say I don't respond with a number after that point.
Once I have all the offers I expect on the table, I respond in whatever way seems best. If one of the offers is good enough, I might just accept it and be done with it. Or I might decide to negotiate with one or more of the companies who have made offers, in which case I will be responding to them with some kind of counter that might include a number. The point is that I'm not making any substantive response until I have all of the information I need to weigh my options.
> if it works for you, best of luck
I have used the process I've been describing every time I've had to do a job search. It has worked out reasonably well.
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> Leverage is what someone else believes you're interested in. If you're good enough at dissimulation to make a recruiter (who has a lot more experience at this than you do) believe you're interested in another offer when you're actually not, you probably don't need any of the advice in either the article or this discussion thread. But if you're not that good at dissimulation, attempting it is shooting yourself in th…
I can't argue against "if you're that good at it". I do know most people lie and they lie a lot. Often at work. If you've ever called in sick, pretended to be thrilled at someone's birthday gift (not family), told your boss you were stoked about a project that you certainly were not and felt believed -- tap into it!
Yes, in situations which are nothing like job negotiations. Sure, people tell little white lies all the time, because the stakes are low and nobody has any real incentive to call them on it. (Calling in sick might be different if you do it often enough that your boss starts wondering what's going on.) Neither of those things are the case in job negotiations.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
According to Freaknomics, realtors get about 3% higher average closing prices on their own properties than when they're representing you as a customer. That is the delta when it is their money on the line vs yours.
3%? That's like a minor 'I want this to be done now' or someone else is coming for a second viewing tomorrow type bump, if that's even statistically significant, frankly that seems fine?