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Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

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Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#131

Post by 000ooo000 »

yencabulator wrote: post #121
civilitty wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have those vegans done for animals? Just because they can’t stomach eating them doesn’t mean they actually “care” about animals enough to do something productive. In the US, hunters have long spearheaded conservation efforts. Theodore Roosevelt said, over a hundred years ago: > “In a civilized and cultivated country, wild animals only continue to exist at all when preserved by sportsmen. The excellent people who…

Meanwhile, humans have hunted countless species into extinction.

Yeah ok, but have the vegans done anything to help those species? Apart from not killing them I mean. Hunters, on the other hand, while yes, historically they may have technically sent some species extinct, they truly lead conservation efforts. Stupid hipster vegans need to pick up a gun and show that they actually care.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#132

Post by lostlogin »

From the article:

> But they’re not dependent on you. They don’t need you.

Here in New Zealand we have too many bees, and they are most definitely dependant on humans. If you don't treat them, they'll die in a season from varroa. They might survive a little longer, but not much. There are wild colonies sin a nearby park, and all fail.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#133

Post by ianburrell »

cryptonector wrote: post #122
tptacek wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're all keeping honeybees, which are competing with the native pollinators. (You can of course buy mason bee nests or whatever, but nobody calls you a beekeeper for doing that).

I am quite interested in building native bee "hotels".

Mason bees lay nest in holes. Hotels are bundle of tubes mounted on wall. It is supposed to be important get goods ones, which seem to have wood trays instead of tubes, but I don't have a source on those. Some people bring the full hotels inside for winter but I get mild winters and figure bees know what they are doing. Then the bees emerge in the spring and lay eggs for winter. The tubes need to be cleaned or replaced, but not sure when.

Thanks for reminding me, I've been meaning to put up a mason bee hotel. I hope not too late.

Most other native bees are ground nesting. Leaving bare earth or brush piles can help.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#134

Post by 000ooo000 »

MostlyStable wrote: post #125
yencabulator wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, humans have hunted countless species into extinction.

Not to say that we haven't hunted some species to extinction, but the vast majority of how we kill them is habitat destruction through our expanding civilization. Both are factors, but hunting is by far not the primary one.

Why is "but we extinct more species through other activities" context of interest here? The discussion is about hunting.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#135

Post by ianburrell »

ianburrell wrote: post #133
cryptonector wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am quite interested in building native bee "hotels".

Mason bees lay nest in holes. Hotels are bundle of tubes mounted on wall. It is supposed to be important get goods ones, which seem to have wood trays instead of tubes, but I don't have a source on those. Some people bring the full hotels inside for winter but I get mild winters and figure bees know what they are doing. Then the bees emerge in the spring and lay eggs for winter. The tubes need to be cleaned or replac…

Unfortunately, I think we missed the window for this year. It sounds like mason bees seal up cocoons in early summer.

I found page on making wild bee sanctuary: https://davidsuzuki.org/living-green/how-to-grow-a-wild-bee-.... And one on mason bees: https://davidsuzuki.org/living-green/how-to-support-mason-be....

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#136

Post by SEJeff »

000ooo000 wrote: post #134
MostlyStable wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to say that we haven't hunted some species to extinction, but the vast majority of how we kill them is habitat destruction through our expanding civilization. Both are factors, but hunting is by far not the primary one.

Why is "but we extinct more species through other activities" context of interest here? The discussion is about hunting.

Because very few species have been hunted to extinction. That’s directly contextual to the conversation.

Both are a travesty fwiw, but habitat destruction is easily 10x worse when it comes to endangering species.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#137

Post by droopyEyelids »

kurthr wrote: post #119
cryptonector wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong, no-chemical-treatment hives with "good genetics" in low-pesticide environments have low loss rates. Even the loss rates we see advertised (38% or whatever) are not existential problems for beekeeping because you can split hives (i.e., reproduce) at a higher rate anyways. So the switch to no-chemical-treatment plans is not that hard. Honeybee colonies are mainly stressed by a) pesticides (in the pollen and nec…

As an urban beekeeper I find this argument a bit odd and not matching my experience. I'm not trying to optimize for growth rate or monocrop pollination and frankly find that the hives grow quite fast and can swarm multiple times per season (late spring early summer). However, they seem to swarm most WHEN they start being stressed by varroa! I haven't seen a clean hive go a year without developing varroa so it's endem…

Have you tried oxalic acid treatment instead of apiguard/apivar? Way more effective and cheaper for me. Also there's a strong argument its more 'natural'

Overall I agree with your points completely. Honeybees are not native to North America and we're doing animal husbandry and farming on what's basically an invasive species. There is no such thing as doing it "naturally"

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#138

Post by Terr_ »

BagelGuy wrote: post #87
BbzzbB wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's particularly a US problem, ours are not crammed like sardine cans.

While their living conditions are better it seems a stretch to say that these farmers "care" much for the beings they imprison, artificially inseminate, and extract resources from. I imagine they aren't providing much care for the males born from their cows.

Nonsense, the Existifier [0] is always moral. :p

[0] https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/existence

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#139

Post by cryptonector »

kurthr wrote: post #119
cryptonector wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strong, no-chemical-treatment hives with "good genetics" in low-pesticide environments have low loss rates. Even the loss rates we see advertised (38% or whatever) are not existential problems for beekeeping because you can split hives (i.e., reproduce) at a higher rate anyways. So the switch to no-chemical-treatment plans is not that hard. Honeybee colonies are mainly stressed by a) pesticides (in the pollen and nec…

As an urban beekeeper I find this argument a bit odd and not matching my experience. I'm not trying to optimize for growth rate or monocrop pollination and frankly find that the hives grow quite fast and can swarm multiple times per season (late spring early summer). However, they seem to swarm most WHEN they start being stressed by varroa! I haven't seen a clean hive go a year without developing varroa so it's endem…

I've overwintered once. So far so good. No treatment. I've hives that have zero mites, and hives that have moderate mite load. We'll see what happens this coming winter.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#140

Post by h2odragon »

justinclift wrote: post #111

> John asked me not to disclose his exact location, because his hives fell off the radar of the National Bee Unit ... > Gareth John ... who lives on a quiet lane above a river in Oxfordshire. > In Oxfordshire, John led the way to his apiary, which was on a small pasture at the back of his property, bounded by high hedgerows. Giving his full name and the area he lives seems like a super incompetent way to "not disclos…

John asked, but that doesn't mean a reporter will do.
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