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Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

theguardian.com

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Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#61

Post by nonethewiser »

pbj1968 wrote: post #38
hilbert42 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I did a bit of speleology so I'm not afraid of confined spaces but as a male I'd be scared to spend time on a submarine in cramped conditions and in mixed company. I reckon I'd be under constant stress in case I accidentally said something out of place unlike in all-male work environments I've worked in the past where banter and certain types of comment pass without thought. The nature and politics of the t…

Or you just shut off the lizard brain and don’t think about your coworkers that way.

Isn’t the “lizard brain” just instinct though? That’s what makes it the lizard brain.

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#62

Post by nonethewiser »

norgie wrote: post #44
avar wrote: post #5

This 2012 article mentions that the Royal Navy might have female submariners "next year". It happened in 2014: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/female-submariners-make-h... And here's the next article I found on the subject, from last year, looks like it's not going so well: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.opindia.com/2022/11/women-o...

Just in case anyone else hasn't heard of "Opindia" before (the second link): > OpIndia is an Indian right-wing news website that frequently publishes misinformation. Founded in December 2014, the website has published fake news and Islamophobic commentary on many occasions. OpIndia is dedicated to criticism of what it considers "liberal media", and to support of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Hindutva ideology.…

Im skeptical about this take. Wikepedia moderation is left wing and has repeatedly published misinformation.

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#63

Post by jessriedel »

norgie wrote: post #44
avar wrote: post #5

This 2012 article mentions that the Royal Navy might have female submariners "next year". It happened in 2014: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/female-submariners-make-h... And here's the next article I found on the subject, from last year, looks like it's not going so well: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.opindia.com/2022/11/women-o...

Just in case anyone else hasn't heard of "Opindia" before (the second link): > OpIndia is an Indian right-wing news website that frequently publishes misinformation. Founded in December 2014, the website has published fake news and Islamophobic commentary on many occasions. OpIndia is dedicated to criticism of what it considers "liberal media", and to support of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Hindutva ideology.…

Here's the Daily Mail, also right-wing, but notable for being Britain's highest circulation paid newspaper (and has female-majority readership):

> Bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment on Royal Navy submarines EXPOSED: Whistleblowers including trailblazing female officer reveal 'crush depth rape list' of women, stolen underwear and claims of assault

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11366169/Bullying-m...

And the Times (right-leaning):

> Royal Navy nuclear sub whistleblower: misogyny inquiry a ‘whitewash’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/royal-navy-nuclear-sub-wh...

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#64

Post by deanCommie »

hilbert42 wrote: post #52
pbj1968 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you just shut off the lizard brain and don’t think about your coworkers that way.

It has nothing to do with lizard brain whatsoever. If for some reason I had to take disciplinary action against one of those women and I had good and legitimate reason to do so then I would be at risk of retribution. The chances of me being believed would be negligible. I have always been courteous to coworkers, especially women. Your comment has just validified my point about today's politics. Decades ago no one wou…

[flagged]

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#65

Post by nonethewiser »

tpmx wrote: post #13

I think a nuclear deterrence against insane countries like e.g. Russia is of critical importance. I'm am also concerned about the quality of the work on UK's four nuclear subs. 2012: "British submariner tried to pass secrets to Russia" https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-russia-submarine-... 2017: "Nuclear submarine sex and drugs scandal: Nine Trident crew expelled from Navy amid 'cocaine' and affairs allegati…

> The submarine has recently been embroiled in controversy over allegations of an onboard relationship between a male and female.

Apparently the first female to sail on a sub was in 2014. So 3 years prior.

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#66

Post by nonethewiser »

avar wrote: post #5

This 2012 article mentions that the Royal Navy might have female submariners "next year". It happened in 2014: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/female-submariners-make-h... And here's the next article I found on the subject, from last year, looks like it's not going so well: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.opindia.com/2022/11/women-o...

And 3 years later in 2017 there are drugs and sex problems.

> Nine service personnel on a nuclear submarine have been discharged from the Royal Navy after testing positive for drugs.

> The revelations come after claims earlier this month of inappropriate sexual relationships among some of those on board HMS Vigilant, one of four Vanguard Class submarines which maintain the UK's nuclear deterrent and is armed with Trident missiles.

> The submarine has recently been embroiled in controversy over allegations of an onboard relationship between a male and female.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/navy-nuclear...

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#67

Post by nonethewiser »

jessriedel wrote: post #63
norgie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in case anyone else hasn't heard of "Opindia" before (the second link): > OpIndia is an Indian right-wing news website that frequently publishes misinformation. Founded in December 2014, the website has published fake news and Islamophobic commentary on many occasions. OpIndia is dedicated to criticism of what it considers "liberal media", and to support of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Hindutva ideology.…

Here's the Daily Mail, also right-wing, but notable for being Britain's highest circulation paid newspaper (and has female-majority readership): > Bullying, misogyny and sexual harassment on Royal Navy submarines EXPOSED: Whistleblowers including trailblazing female officer reveal 'crush depth rape list' of women, stolen underwear and claims of assault https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11366169/Bullying-m... A…

Looks like they vindicate Opindia and it wasn’t misinformation after all.

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#68

Post by hilbert42 »

mjmsmith wrote: post #56
hilbert42 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with lizard brain whatsoever. If for some reason I had to take disciplinary action against one of those women and I had good and legitimate reason to do so then I would be at risk of retribution. The chances of me being believed would be negligible. I have always been courteous to coworkers, especially women. Your comment has just validified my point about today's politics. Decades ago no one wou…

Better to say nothing and risk being thought a lizard brain than to say "A group of males locked up and isolated without sex for three months but still in the tempting presence of women isn't natural", and remove all doubt.

Perhaps so, but if I'm not stating facts then what else do we attribute the subsequent trouble to as outlined in those links?

What's worse risk of being shot as the messenger or saying nothing and letting situations get more out of hand? I've always preferred the former but as I've witnessed here many prefer to remain silent.

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#69

Post by mcpackieh »

nonethewiser wrote: post #60
Angostura wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Where does he say that?

Ironically, such malicious interpretations of casual remarks are probably the sort of thing hilbert42 is worried about. Walking defensively on eggshells in the office is one thing, at least at the end of the day you can go home and breath easy, but sealed in a metal tube under the ocean, where you have to guard what you say at all times even in your sleep? No thanks, not for me.

Re: Life on board a British nuclear submarine (2012)

#70

Post by whatshisface »

nonethewiser wrote: post #58
hilbert42 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago I did a bit of speleology so I'm not afraid of confined spaces but as a male I'd be scared to spend time on a submarine in cramped conditions and in mixed company. I reckon I'd be under constant stress in case I accidentally said something out of place unlike in all-male work environments I've worked in the past where banter and certain types of comment pass without thought. The nature and politics of the t…

The dynamic is completely different in mixed company. It used to be common for men and women to attend different universities. In fact, learning outcomes tend to be better in single sex education [0] and its not really surprising - everyone is more productive and focused. What’s surprising is how we don't realize the effectiveness of single sex education despite research, common sense, and tradition all pointing towa…

Maybe it's because we don't actually want the human race to go one more generation before dying out. :-)
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