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Frank Smith was locked up for 8 decades. At 98, what would it mean to be free?

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Re: Frank Smith was locked up for 8 decades. At 98, what would it mean to be free?

#71

Post by FreshStart »

lyu07282 wrote: post #34

there is a real problem with the elderly in american prisons, they sentenced so many people to absurdly high sentences in the 80s/90s that they basically ended up with nursing homes for the elderly except they are prisoners. https://www.aclu.org/report/americas-expense-mass-incarcerat... Its just the punitive culture that is deeply rooted in american society. Its one of the more depressing subjects in sociology when…

Guy sounds like a high functional schizophrenic. Would be incredibly interesting to see him "wake" up with medication. But at 90? It would be pure torture..

Re: Frank Smith was locked up for 8 decades. At 98, what would it mean to be free?

#72

Post by ceejayoz »

parineum wrote: post #68
ceejayoz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we'd have to spend a lot more tax dollars on prisoners to actually rehabilitate anything Not necessarily. Recidivism costs a lot , too. Norway spends over $100k/inmate, to the US's $25k/inmate ( https://bpr.berkeley.edu/2022/10/25/what-can-we-learn-from-t... ), but only 20% reoffend versus 2/3 of American inmates. (Resulting in 70/100k incarcerated versus the US's 700/100k; that $100k/year starts to look like $10k/…

I'm not against spending more per prisoner on actual rehabilitation efforts but I am very skeptical the US would see anywhere near that improvement. The circumstances that lead to crime in the two countries are quite different and those US prisoners end up right back in those situations when they are released.

I don't doubt that the Norwegian system has other aspects / safety nets that help here, but the article says they had a 70% rate as recently as the 1990s. It would be silly not to look at that 70% -> 20% drop and at least try and learn some of the lessons from it.

"Officers are trained for 2 to 3 years before being sent to work" seems like a good one to start with, as does the skills building to prepare them for the outside.

Re: Frank Smith was locked up for 8 decades. At 98, what would it mean to be free?

#73

Post by FreshStart »

hsjqllzlfkf wrote: post #65

> In conversations over the course of a year, the only person I hear him express something like friendship for is Tucker Carlson, the recently deposed Fox News host. “He’s my type of guy. We’re the same type,” he says, though he won’t say more. (...) > He begins to unspool a series of conspiracy theories, threaded with racial slurs: The United Nations was plotting to take away America’s weapons. He writes, “The Jew h…

Classic Shizo facist, justice still should apply. Also kind of funny that proof against systemic racism like this guy exists.

Seems that once you discount the input filter laws, the machine gives little about your views and skin color. Of course a for profit prison system needs to dump the unprofitable old folks, so I guess we will see mass paroles.. After crack epidemic +50 years. Reformed I swear, all those worked to the bones slaves, reformed, finger cross the purse and hope to die.

Re: Frank Smith was locked up for 8 decades. At 98, what would it mean to be free?

#74

Post by gabereiser »

watwut wrote: post #31
gabereiser wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system is designed to “rehabilitate” you. That is, to make it so you’re dependent on the system to live. Most offenders, repeat, sending them back to jail. Some have argued because it’s easier than out on the streets trying to survive. In prison you have a bed, food, shelter (though not from others). On the outside, you had to provide that. Shawshank redemption talked about this a bit when Brooks (the librarian a…

Shawshank redemption is a movie, a fiction. It never happened and characters are made up. That being said USA have rather high reoffending rates while Norway has a low one. And Norway has more pleasant prisons (and makes it easier to find a job after you have been in prison).

Yeah no sh*t it’s a movie. There’s inspiration taken from real life. The reentry is the most important part and I’m glad to hear that Norway takes that seriously. We are all still humans. Not dogs or animals (though in some rare cases here… not so sure).

Re: Frank Smith was locked up for 8 decades. At 98, what would it mean to be free?

#75

Post by mongol »

lyu07282 wrote: post #67
mongol wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me tell you that it can go much too far in that direction too. We have repulsing examples of especially young criminals that get off very serious crimes with not much more than a slap on the wrist.

Oh I'd imagine especially the rise of tabloid news has driven a lot of resentment towards the rehabilitation-based judiciary system in Scandinavian countries, but its still the job of a functioning government to protect its rehabilitation/evidence-based justice system. After all there are conservatives everywhere, attempting to cash in on law and order politics, doesn't help that with the rise of neoliberalism there…

Your comments are so far from the reality as it evolves in Sweden in recent years that it is pointless to respond. It is obvious you have no idea what is going on here. You can't apply US liberal glasses to fix a situation caused by more left-leaning liberalism than the US have ever seen.

Re: Frank Smith was locked up for 8 decades. At 98, what would it mean to be free?

#76

Post by hsjqllzlfkf »

FreshStart wrote: post #73
hsjqllzlfkf wrote: post #65

> In conversations over the course of a year, the only person I hear him express something like friendship for is Tucker Carlson, the recently deposed Fox News host. “He’s my type of guy. We’re the same type,” he says, though he won’t say more. (...) > He begins to unspool a series of conspiracy theories, threaded with racial slurs: The United Nations was plotting to take away America’s weapons. He writes, “The Jew h…

Classic Shizo facist, justice still should apply. Also kind of funny that proof against systemic racism like this guy exists. Seems that once you discount the input filter laws, the machine gives little about your views and skin color. Of course a for profit prison system needs to dump the unprofitable old folks, so I guess we will see mass paroles.. After crack epidemic +50 years. Reformed I swear, all those worked…

Obvious chatgpt

Re: Frank Smith was locked up for 8 decades. At 98, what would it mean to be free?

#77

Post by [deleted] »

mongol wrote: post #39
lyu07282 wrote: post #34

there is a real problem with the elderly in american prisons, they sentenced so many people to absurdly high sentences in the 80s/90s that they basically ended up with nursing homes for the elderly except they are prisoners. https://www.aclu.org/report/americas-expense-mass-incarcerat... Its just the punitive culture that is deeply rooted in american society. Its one of the more depressing subjects in sociology when…

Let me tell you that it can go much too far in that direction too. We have repulsing examples of especially young criminals that get off very serious crimes with not much more than a slap on the wrist.

[deleted]

Re: Frank Smith was locked up for 8 decades. At 98, what would it mean to be free?

#78

Post by greedo »

dsego wrote: post #54
greedo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deterrence? I don't think that long sentences deter any crime. If the ultimate sentence (DP) doesn't deter murder, then why would lesser sentences deter lesser crimes?

It's always weird for me to hear arguments about death penalty not deterring crime, then in the same breath they favor life in prison over death penalty. Not even aware of their double standard.

My opposition to the DP is based on my distrust in our justice system and the fact that a wrongly applied DP is irrevocable. Life w/o Parole lets you amend failures in our legal system.

Re: Frank Smith was locked up for 8 decades. At 98, what would it mean to be free?

#79

Post by greedo »

LBTables wrote: post #62
greedo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deterrence? I don't think that long sentences deter any crime. If the ultimate sentence (DP) doesn't deter murder, then why would lesser sentences deter lesser crimes?

> Deterrence? I don't think that long sentences deter any crime. So you think if there was no punishment for any crime, the crime rates wouldn't skyrocket? Not sure what to say to you if you think that's true. > If the ultimate sentence (DP) doesn't deter murder... Who says it doesn't? Deter doesn't mean prevent entirely. You can't just say "well murders still happen", that doesn't prove that there wouldn't be more m…

Reductio ad absurdum, and a straw man as well. Of course if you eliminated all punishment for crimes, crime would skyrocket.

I think that long sentences are counterproductive and expensive, both in terms of societal expense and in how we treat people. The US would be wise to wean itself off the nipple of hatred and revenge that feeds our punitive "correctional system."

And it doesn't take much googling to find the answer to your final question. The majority of murders are committed in anger, because of mental illness, under the influence of drugs/alcohol etc. Few murders are committed by people planning rationally in cold blood, weighing the pros and cons.

Do I think some people deserve to be locked up for life? Yup. The man who murdered my niece and two others in a fit of drunken rage should never be allowed to walk freely in society. In the state where he committed his crimes, the DP was an option, but I'm glad it wasn't imposed. Having the DP on the books sure didn't deter him. And it hasn't deterred proven to be a deterrent in states that have it as law; homicide rates are higher in states with the DP than those without.

I have family in LE. In the justice system. Colleagues who work in the FBI and DoJ. Coworkers who were COs in prison. None of them think what we're doing is effective, either for less serious offenders or the most heinous prisoners. We either put them in a SHU, give them the needle or throw them to the wolves in Gen Pop. Prisons have become our toxic waste dumps.

Re: Frank Smith was locked up for 8 decades. At 98, what would it mean to be free?

#80

Post by dsego »

greedo wrote: post #78
dsego wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always weird for me to hear arguments about death penalty not deterring crime, then in the same breath they favor life in prison over death penalty. Not even aware of their double standard.

My opposition to the DP is based on my distrust in our justice system and the fact that a wrongly applied DP is irrevocable. Life w/o Parole lets you amend failures in our legal system.

It's a common opinion. I find this stance a bit weak, since it doesn't hold the justice system to the highest standards and expectations. I know, death seems so immediate and there is no taking it back, but things aren't usually that trivial in reality, a life in prison can also mean the person dies in prison without reparation, or even if revoked, the person might spend most their life in prison and has a few years to live free. A person on death row might have many years to prove their innocence. I guess we could also apply a statistical analysis and determine if the error margin is tolerable, sort like how we handle hundreds of deaths in traffic.
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