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Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires
121–130 of 142 posts
Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires
#122Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires
#123> More than 100 deaths have been confirmed, and roughly 1,000 people remain unaccounted for. It's been two weeks now. Does this mean that roughly 1,000 people died?
Sometimes, it can be a case where someone is still alive, but hasn't yet communicated with the person that reported them missing for whatever reason. After two weeks, however, I imagine that most of the missing will never reappear.
Frequently missing people show up but do not notify authorities that they're okay.
Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires
#124When Tucson experienced a hazardous chemical spill during evening rush hour[0] officials required everyone to shelter in their homes to avoid the poisonous fumes outside. At the same time they closed tons of roads for miles around the area, even the inbound road access to many residential areas. What could people do who needed to get home to their kids? They had to park their car and trek a few miles to their homes.…
911: The twin towers also had PA system alerting office workers to stay on their floors. Because that was deemed "safe".
And this are buildings that would have gone thru regular fire drills, etc.
Those that listened & were above the ~80th floor, did not survive
Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also worth remembering that frequently the average person has no idea what to do in emergencies and the gut response is frequently wrong, if not terribly wrong.
The police are average people too.
Doctors make mistakes too, they're average people too. Should we go with our gut on medical decisions?
At what point does someone stop becoming "average people" for us to think that our gut doesn't outsmart them?
Lets not forget that "average people" are commonly barely better than animals in emergency situations. Look at how much training it takes to ensure a building full of people don't trample each other to death in the event of a building emergency.
There's a very wide gulf between being ultimately responsible for your own safety and assuming that your immediate, uneducated gut reactions are more informed than professionals with training.
Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires
#126> Hawaiian Electric had no procedure in place for turning off the grid I find this hard to believe. Substations have remote control. Even if they are so old that they do not, send out a lineman crew and open the cutouts. You have to be able to do this to do maintenance and repair, it's not believable that they cannot "turn off" power in an emergency.
For the experts on electronics here. Lets imagine a theoretical scenery when some undisclosed vulnerability would allow somebody to hack the system, create a voltage spike and emit sparks remotely, triggering multiple fires at a desired place, from the other coin of the planet.
Do you think that this could be a realistic danger? (or not because there are systems put in place that avoid it?)
If yes, how we could suspect foul game and hunt that person, or how the electric companies could defend its property against that possibility [1]?
[1] (I understand that the companies should have removed any flammable materials under the lines first to avoid negligence)
Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Good luck ignoring the next government-issued evacuation order or shelter-in-place order in your region then.
The point is that it's context-specific. Only you have the personal context. I know several people that have ignored fire evacuation orders and saved their homes instead. No fire department is going to tell people to fight the fire because they don't know people's individual situations. Shelter and place orders are another funny one. I have a lot of fond memories ignoring shelter in place orders hiking and camping in…
>I know several people that have ignored fire evacuation orders and saved their homes instead.
Lots of wildfire stories include people who ignored evacuation orders and died. This is just silly confirmation bias. The large majority of people who survive wildfires do so because they listened to government officials and implying that people should ignore evacuation orders is frankly stupidly dangerous.
>Shelter and place orders are another funny one. I have a lot of fond memories ignoring shelter in place orders hiking and camping in the wilderness during covid. It probably reduced my risk versus Sheltering at home. Blanket orders were one size fits all, made to address the person that is going to parties and bars.
How would going out lower your risk in this case? You obviously increased your risk, if only so slightly.
Edit* I literally just got notice of a level 3 evac that doesn't cover me but is near me. I'm sure all those "non-conformists" will stay and make life miserable for firefighters.
Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires
#128Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also worth remembering that frequently the average person has no idea what to do in emergencies and the gut response is frequently wrong, if not terribly wrong.
The police are average people too.
> The police are average people too.
Let's assume you are right, and just presume that a police officer is as useless in an emergency response scenario as your average Joe.
Police officers are a part of a regional- and state-wide organization dedicated to respond to emergencies, collect and process information from multiple sources including direct presence in critical areas, and coordinate the efforts of all members. All members, including your hypothetical police officer.
Do you really think that your personal ignorance and lack of insight and context and situational awareness is no better than that of the police officer who is integrated in that state-wide organization dedicated to act during these events?
Industrial levels of arrogance and presumption are required to think the average Joe knows best on how to act during an emergency than emergency responders on the ground.
Re: Maui residents who disobeyed barricades survived fires
#130and those korean kids on that ship, the only ones who survived were the ones who disobeyed orders. and theres video of the kids staying in place talking about a subway accident where people were told to stay put and the only ones who died were the ones who disobeyed. think for yourself.
People die all the time when they don't follow the advice of experts. There's a news worthiness confirmation bias of events that go the other way.
yes, everything is an illusion. no point in thinking, just follow instructions