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Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

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Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#91

Post by giantg2 »

Very interesting read, even for someone who has some exposure to these ideas as a beekeeper. A lot of it really comes down to personal theories and opinions.

I keep my bees as "treatment-free". I don't treat for mites. I haven't had anything like AFB, but that would require drastic measures. I leave on plenty of honey for the bees and try not to feed at all. I use foundationless frames. I want to have "survivor" stock, but that might take a few more years.

The average colony loss in the US is around 50% last time I looked. It seems most people have good years and bad years regardless of the management. I've had years when all, or nearly all, hives have survived. I've also had years where all, or nearly all, had died.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#92

Post by giantg2 »

mrweasel wrote: post #21

There's a lot of weird assumptions in the article. "Normal" beekeepers try to breed varroa resistant bees as well, but still trying to keep the non-resistant ones alive too. It might be faster to just let nature deal with the issue, but that means losing an insane amount of hives. It's basically the same as claiming that hunters don't care about animals or the forrest, or that dairy farms don't care about their cows.…

Unless you're doing AI, all your subsequent stock will be mutts anyways.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#93

Post by adolph »

ggm wrote: post #30

A different article I read this week says urban bees exceed the feeding capacity in the city in some places and we need to be more circumspect about who, and how many bees. More diverse pollination insects would probably be net beneficial in bee pollinated foods.

A recent popular science book I'd recommend is "Endless Forms: The Secret World of Wasps" by Seirian Sumner. It speaks to wasps' utility as pollinators, pest eaters and how bees and ants are descendants of wasps. After reading it I turned over a dirt dauber next and showed my kids the wasp larva with the separate chamber of immobilized but living spiders and other bugs the mother wasp had apportioned for the larva.

https://www.amazon.com/Endless-Forms-Secret-World-Wasps/dp/0...

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#94

Post by Loughla »

TheChaplain wrote: post #65
BbzzbB wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's particularly a US problem, ours are not crammed like sardine cans.

Confirmed. Family relative in Sweden is a farmer, their cows roam around freely and go to the milking robot themselves when they need.

Family relative in the US is a farmer as well, their cows roam around freely and go to the milking robot themselves when they need.

It's true. But it's also anecdotal.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#95

Post by caput770 »

000ooo000 wrote: post #60
mrweasel wrote: post #21

There's a lot of weird assumptions in the article. "Normal" beekeepers try to breed varroa resistant bees as well, but still trying to keep the non-resistant ones alive too. It might be faster to just let nature deal with the issue, but that means losing an insane amount of hives. It's basically the same as claiming that hunters don't care about animals or the forrest, or that dairy farms don't care about their cows.…

>It's basically the same as claiming that hunters don't care about animals Is there a suggestion here that people who kill animals for fun/leisure care for them? In the same sense that one might use the word 'care' when referring to a loved one or a pet?

You clearly have little idea of what you're talking about if you think hunters kill animals for fun and leisure.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#96

Post by BiteCode_dev »

caput770 wrote: post #95
000ooo000 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's basically the same as claiming that hunters don't care about animals Is there a suggestion here that people who kill animals for fun/leisure care for them? In the same sense that one might use the word 'care' when referring to a loved one or a pet?

You clearly have little idea of what you're talking about if you think hunters kill animals for fun and leisure.

I know many hunters, and they do.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#97

Post by riversflow »

caput770 wrote: post #95
000ooo000 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's basically the same as claiming that hunters don't care about animals Is there a suggestion here that people who kill animals for fun/leisure care for them? In the same sense that one might use the word 'care' when referring to a loved one or a pet?

You clearly have little idea of what you're talking about if you think hunters kill animals for fun and leisure.

I know a lot of hunters. Fun and leisure is exactly how I would describe it. Do you really think most hunters kill animals out of necessity? There are exceptions of course but, lol.

There is certainly a place for hunting and there are certainly hunters who care deeply about ecology. I don’t see how it’s not a combination of fun and leisure though.

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#98

Post by consumer451 »

mrweasel wrote: post #76
bleuarff wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, the head of the french hunting federation has openly said he couldn't care less about animals and regulations. While receiving public funds to fulfill a mission of regulation.

Okay, that is actually down right idiotic. The Danish hunters association even wants cat regulated due to the excessive damage they do to wildlife.

They might get inspiration from New Zealand.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/19/bird-killing-m...

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#99

Post by JacobAldridge »

giantg2 wrote: post #92
mrweasel wrote: post #21

There's a lot of weird assumptions in the article. "Normal" beekeepers try to breed varroa resistant bees as well, but still trying to keep the non-resistant ones alive too. It might be faster to just let nature deal with the issue, but that means losing an insane amount of hives. It's basically the same as claiming that hunters don't care about animals or the forrest, or that dairy farms don't care about their cows.…

Unless you're doing AI, all your subsequent stock will be mutts anyways.

I think I just realised why no farmers trained in Artificial Insemination are opening my “Detailed” and “Visual” Artificial Intelligence tutorials…

Re: Natural beekeepers are the radical dissenters of apiculture

#100

Post by voisin »

cryptonector wrote: post #42

I highly recommend Top-Bar Beekeeping: Organic Practices for Honeybee Health, by Les Crowder. My bees are treatment-free and going strong, and we'll be converting all of our Langstroth hives to top-bar hives this coming Spring. Basically, honeybee hives with mite treatment have high failure rates, and honeybee hives with no chemical treatments do better when the bees have been bred for mite resistance, so do the latt…

I am new to beekeeping this year and just trying to build my colonies up from the nucs I received. I have not done mite checks as I don’t want to kill a cup of bees every few weeks just to do the check, and a shocking number of beekeepers I’ve met have mentioned that they lost entire colonies as soon as they treated for mites. I desperately want to be treatment-free - if I pick up that book would the lessons be applicable if I stuck with Langstroth hive bodies?
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