Common mistakes in salary negotiation • Hacker News Board

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#121

Post by doctorpangloss » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 8:32 PM UTC

spaceywilly wrote: post #34

“The key is to get multiple 400k offers in the same week” Wow why didn’t I think of that!

There's a FAANG company on 1 Hacker Way. There's one on 1 Infinite Loop, Apple. There's on on Sand Hill Road, Ampitheatre Parkway actually, that's Google. Netflix, 100 Winchester Circle, that's a good one. You know, I think they're all in the same place, the FAANG District.

Seriously though, I can only imagine how much I'd be laughed out of the room if I was some little shit 22 year old trying to negotiate a salary at a gigantic company, where exactly 0 people I am talking to have any agency whatsoever, only 1 year after 150,000 people in the tech industry were laid off, the memories of dozens of my classmates getting their offers rescinded fresh in my mind. And then for what, to live alone in Sunnyvale for 13 months?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/10rko7k/mo...

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#122

Post by CodeBrad » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 8:33 PM UTC

victor9000 wrote: post #103

irrational wrote: post #90

I work for a Fortune 100 company. Years ago they wanted to make sure that everyone in the same job was making the same amount of money (they were especially trying to make sure women were making as much as men). So they had an outside consulting group look at everyone’s salaries and adjusted them as needed to make sure they were all the same within $1. I ended up getting a $15k bump. They review it again every year t…

It sounds like a great way to miss out on talent that can command a salary higher than the average, while simultaneously attracting talent for whom this is a good deal.

You get what you pay for.

If there is a one off person who can command a higher salary, its unlikely they alone will make a huge difference to the company anyway.

If there are a lot of people who could command a higher salary in that role, the pay is too low.

Overall it seems like a pretty good system. You could argue that the current system favors people who are good at negotiating, and not necessarily more skilled workers.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#123

Post by fardo » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 8:33 PM UTC

hiddencost wrote: post #120

It's mostly a waste of time, trying to negotiate with the big tech companies. I tried this with one, and they offered me a larger signing bonus. What I didn't realize was that they just ended up deducting that from my year end bonus.

Even if it was net neutral on hard compensation, guaranteed money now beats potential money later. Seems like a net win for negotiation.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#124

Post by dessimus » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 8:36 PM UTC

orblivion wrote: post #114

Is it also true that the recruiter is not really the "friend" of the company either? If they'll work against your marginal interests to close the deal, why wouldn't they work against the company's marginal interests for the same?

Since they are working for a percentage of the amount of salary they have negotiated for you, they have a diminishing return to spend time pushing too hard. Additionally, if they fight too hard, too often, the company is less likely to engage with the recruiter in the future, if they feel they are overpaying for that recruiter's candidates vs another's.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#125

Post by yieldcrv » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 8:42 PM UTC

irrational wrote: post #90

I work for a Fortune 100 company. Years ago they wanted to make sure that everyone in the same job was making the same amount of money (they were especially trying to make sure women were making as much as men). So they had an outside consulting group look at everyone’s salaries and adjusted them as needed to make sure they were all the same within $1. I ended up getting a $15k bump. They review it again every year t…

that’s nice but not holistic enough

people are overly assuming ingrained bias from a shadowy cabal of hiring managers and not looking at different gendered funnels, attrition, and personal contribution to the outcomes all within the same roles

HIRED’s recruitment report, for example, found very gendered compensations asks to begin with

similarly, people discount the risk many men take to skew it. for everyone worried about coming across as “too bitchy” there are a bunch of men that came across as “too cocky” and got fired or rejected and kept trying until they were hired at a company who needs someone to “to make the tough decisions” like tough to swallow decisions

the observation discounts how many people are overly focused on moving up in one company, versus not being married to any particular company at all, and how gendered even that is, when the latter has a 30% pay bump compared to eking out 5% discretionary promotions within the same company

also discounted is how many men would also leave the workforce if there was a reliable option of being subsidized for house work and unpaid emotional labor, you’ll get workplace equality and wage normalization overnight with that patch to the culture, instead of focusing solely on trying to patch the workplace and acting confused when the same outcome persists

the incentives for men are work or homelessness, unsheltered, outside. there are no classified ads with discounted or free rent “for men only”, or working for the self accolade of proving you didn't do the easy option. these things are all connected to workplace outcomes

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#126

Post by knallfrosch » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 8:45 PM UTC

viking123 wrote: post #84

SkyPuncher wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found this advice to be far too prevalent and largely unrealistic. Nearly everything about the interview process is out of your control. Getting multiple, competing offers to line up is extremely hard. It’s basically like saying “you win a race by being the fastest”. No duh! How you be the fastest is the hardest part.

Yeah it is so difficult to align these. I had two interview loops going and the other company was my clear favorite but the loop took like 2 months while the other was two weeks. So what I ended up doing is that I took the first job and now in a month or so I am going to quit and move to the other. It sucks but I literally had no other way because I cannot predict the result of the other interview and I cannot ask th…

It's uncomfortable, but possible. In other domains, you might not be able switch from one choice to the other at all.

I find that thought calming.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#127

Post by deckard1 » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 8:45 PM UTC

t0mas88 wrote: post #62

pc86 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never had issues with this approach. Yeah you'll get a few people who think they're being cute about wanting to schedule a call or whatever, but when it comes down to it "I don't move forward without knowing the budgeted range for a position" gets me a number probably 19 out of 20 times, almost always the first time too.

It makes no sense at all for the company or recruiter to hide the range for you. Because they would be wasting their timing doing all kinds of meetings if your expected number is far above that range.

Some companies seem to lie about their top range number as well. If you pass the interview and ask you for a figure and you come back with their top range number, suddenly there are reasons you shouldn't be making that. I strongly suspect they have no intention of giving out that amount but are instead using it to entice people that are willing to accept less than they are worth. It plants the idea that one day you will be making that much at the company if you accept less for now.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#128

Post by andrewfromx » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 8:45 PM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #110

andrewfromx wrote: post #24

the best part is the "exactly what to say" at the end: "At this point, I don’t feel equipped to throw out a number because I’d like to find out more about the opportunity first – right now, I simply don’t have the data to be able to say something concrete. If you end up making me an offer, I would be more than happy to iterate on it if needed and figure out something that works. I promise not to accept other offers u…

I don't think how you say it is as critical as understanding the concept. When I am interviewing, I am usually talking to a few companies at the same time, so my answer is usually "While I don't want to throw out a number, just wanted to be transparent that I am talking to a few companies and have/expect to have another couple of offers before I make a decision. Obviously how those offers come in will be a factor in…

yeah but I was raised to be a good kid and do what the teacher or adult authority figures tell me to do. Even though I'm an adult now, when a fast talking recruiter demands to know some numbers I have a hard time not just folding and giving in! I would need to print out those words and paste them on the wall and like practice 10 times with a friend playing the role of sneaky recruiter.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#129

Post by steno132 » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 8:48 PM UTC

If you're interviewing, you've getting lowballed.

Picture a board chairman discussing a CEO position with his or her top candidate. The chairman's courting the candidate, they're playing golf, they're dining together and he's trying to convince him CEO is a job worth taking.

The job's his, and so is any reasonable dollar figure he wants.

Now, if that fails then the chairman may have traditional interviews with his second or third choice candidates. But they're for sure getting paid nowhere what the first candidate would get.

Re: Common mistakes in salary negotiation

#130

Post by thedougd » Wed, Aug 23, 2023, 8:53 PM UTC

victor9000 wrote: post #103

irrational wrote: post #90

I work for a Fortune 100 company. Years ago they wanted to make sure that everyone in the same job was making the same amount of money (they were especially trying to make sure women were making as much as men). So they had an outside consulting group look at everyone’s salaries and adjusted them as needed to make sure they were all the same within $1. I ended up getting a $15k bump. They review it again every year t…

It sounds like a great way to miss out on talent that can command a salary higher than the average, while simultaneously attracting talent for whom this is a good deal.

Whenever an employer talks about industry median pay, I ask if they want industry median work, or industry median talent and remind them that half of all will perform better.